It’s a good article. I might write a blog post about it, as it raises a significant point about taking an equivocal neuroscience finding and making a big self-help sell out of it. Given the nature of this site, that seems like it’s worth addressing 🙂

I gave up on Behave. Couldn’t get on with the authorial voice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/books/2023/08/02/body-keeps-score-grieving-brain-bessel-van-der-kolk-neuroscience-self-help/

I read Robert M. Sapolsky’s “Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst.” I understood about half of it. The rest went right over my head.

I’m interested in what DrL thinks about this article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/06/12/generational-trauma-passed-healing/

It certainly doesn’t apply to all of us but it applies to some of us. I’ve read some of Bessel van Der Kalk’s stuff. He’s pretty dry.

I found a copy of “One More Time: The Best of Mike Royko” by Mike Royko for a $1 in a used book store. Being the good near-Chicago boy that I am, I bought it. It’s a great book. The book is a collection of his best columns.

Mike Royko (1932-1997) was a Chicago journalist writing for several local newspapers and later a wider audience under syndication. His work in the early 60s and 70s were almost exclusively local but discussed topics of wider concern. Once he went into national syndication, his columns reflected that. He wrote on many topics although you’d have to be from northern Illinois to appreciate most of them.

I think this column belongs here: https://davidroyko.com/royko-royalwedding-1981 I think a few posters will relate to it.

I’ll apologize for Mike to the LwL readers/posters from the UK. Mike’s style was somewhat…brusque.

OT: There are many great columns in the book. But, I think you’d have to be an American who was at least cogent in the 60s to appreciate them. Some of them ring depressingly true decades later. After reading them, I realized that in some ways, the US hasn’t learned a damned thing. For all the progress we think we made, we still have a long way to go. In some aspects, we worse off now.

I think that would sadden Mike, but being from Chicago, I doubt it would surprise him.

Limerent Emeritus’ Maxims for Relationships
(with Apologies to George Bernard Shaw)

Want vs. Need:

Between someone who claims to want you and someone who claims to need you, go with the person who wants you. They’re less likely to resent you later.

In relationships, want trumps need. If someone wants you, it’s because of who you are. If someone needs you, it’s because of something they lack.

There’s nothing cooler than being with someone who wants to be with you.

Theft by force is robbery. Theft in your absence is burglary. Theft under duress is extortion. Theft with your consent is fraud. Crimes of the heart are always fraud. Nobody can steal your heart unless you allow them to.

Threat and Risk:

Threat is a function of capability and intent. Bad threat assessments lead to bad risk assessments. Underestimating what someone might do is bad.
Underestimating what someone can do might be fatal.

Risk is a function of threat, vulnerability, and consequence. We only control our own vulnerabilities. We may be able to mitigate consequences. Eliminating threat is usually unethical, immoral, or illegal. Watch “Sleeping With The Enemy.”

No Contact works because it separates threat from vulnerability. If you can’t eliminate the threat or reduce your vulnerability, stay away from it! If you must remain in contact with them, remember “ALARA,” As Low As Reasonably Achievable. The analogy between many of these people and radioactive waste is not coincidental.

Fear, Obligation, Guilt, and Shame:

Fear and Guilt and Shame are voluntary. They’re like voodoo because it only works if you believe it. You might disavow them but Obligations can be forced upon you, often by a court. See your state’s website for Child Support and Alimony schedules.

Children are the ultimate obligation. They may not always be your partner but they’ll always be the kid’s parent. As an obligation, marriage is a distant second.

Miscellaneous:

Some folks have the potential to go through life as very unhappy people. But, don’t ever tell them. They’ll only hate you for it. Stay away from them, if you can.

Your last paragraph speaks volumes for me. Perhaps Childhood Emotional Neglect [CEN] could have a part to play in limerence. I have read the two books you mention.

Sammy Sams,
“I have always been hugely fascinated by “in-crowd people”. They like a special species of human, aren’t they, those glamorous and enigmatic insiders? I mean, what does it take exactly to be a member of the in-crowd?”
Idk. I watched a girl who started at my high school as a junior. She knew no one and was immediately accepted as “one of them” even though some of them had known each other since kindergarten. I was baffled by it.
“I think I’ve had 4 LOs now, but it’s hard to say for sure, because all the LEs played out differently i.e. not every infatuation was equally long or equally intense.”
Me, too. I’ve had six, maybe 7, since I was 18. One I’m not sure was an actual LE but it was an infatuation and a fascination. That weasel dared me to go to strip clubs with him. (I love a dare. :)) … and still NOTHING physical happened between us. Wth? 🙂
“I mostly glared at my interviewers for asking me stupid questions. 😛”
I bet that didn’t’ go over well. 🙂
“One fit right in with his religious circle. ”
I wasn’t raised with religion and I know you were, but didn’t someone’s religiosity take the wind out of the sails? I don’t mean that sarcastically but I’d assume someone who was religious would .. um … not be open to getting down. 🙂
““Oi, Dad. I’m your only son. A little favouritism wouldn’t go astray now and again. You don’t have to treat me the same as everybody else.”
I understand. A father needs to think his son is the bee’s knees. 🙂
“Maybe the universe is trying to tell me that I should lighten up and stop trying so darn hard to be unique.”
HA! I have tried to be unique my whole life. I honestly don’t know if I can understand any other motivation.
“All of my LOs probably had less talent than me. However, they were good at playing the social game, and showing themselves friendly. Sometimes just being “known” by key people in an organisation is vastly more important than mad skills and whatnot. ”
Totally agree. That and having a good pair of kneepads. 🙂
” What I lack in productivity, for example, I can always make up for in cheesy smiles and unoriginal but disarmingly sincere questions about people’s weekends! Of course, I’m exaggerating a little for fun, but I think you get the gist… 😆”
I find that most people, if you dig hard enough, have an interesting story or two. If you can get past the tedium about the weekend activities. 🙂
” Small talk and social climbing should be taught as subjects in high school. 😉”
That, and a class for all Humanities majors. It is irresponsible for liberal arts colleges not to prepare you. These are the kinds of jobs you can get, this is how much you’ll earn AFTER taxes, this is the cost of an apartment, basic expenses, etc.

Song of the Day: “The “In” Crowd” – Dobie Gray (1965)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZyKZgPmgNA

I’d forgotten how good this song is.

“Girl, I’ll show you a real good time
Come on with me and leave your troubles behind
I don’t care where you’ve been
You ain’t been nowhere till you’ve been in…”

“One thing I have noticed about my LOs is that they always part of the group, unlike me who has always been way over on left field. 🙂 They are the guys who are being promoted at work by management or pushed along in school as “the talented ones.” It’s interesting because I can’t relate to it at all but it fascinates me. They fit so perfectly within the context of their environments.”

@Marcia.

Oh wow. That’s fascinating. It’s almost like you’re fascinated by what it takes to be part of the in-crowd, even though you don’t want to join the in-crowd necessarily. 😛

I have always been hugely fascinated by “in-crowd people”. They like a special species of human, aren’t they, those glamorous and enigmatic insiders? I mean, what does it take exactly to be a member of the in-crowd?

I suppose all of my LOs were guys who knew how to play the social game, more or less. I think I’ve had 4 LOs now, but it’s hard to say for sure, because all the LEs played out differently i.e. not every infatuation was equally long or equally intense.

One made “success” his mantra in life. I don’t know if he ever was successful or not, but he was certainly good at projecting the right image, the image of the successful man. He interviewed well no doubt. (I mostly glared at my interviewers for asking me stupid questions). 😛

One fit right in with his religious circle. Religion was what he valued in life. I don’t know if he was a real man of faith or just a hanger-on. But, again, he paid lip service to all the correct ideals. He seemed to say and do all the right things to earn acceptance from peers.

One was a chameleon. I had a really hard time getting him out of my head. Apparently, he could get along with anyone. He wasn’t just two-faced. He had a face for every occasion. 😉 The only problem was … did he actually like the people he charmed? What’s the saying? The man who is a friend to all is a friend to no one? On the other hand, maybe he just was a lovely person and I’m some terrible cynic who doesn’t believe universal friendship is possible? 😆

My dad has always had the same chameleon thing going on, too. He’s genuinely nice to everyone, and it’s so demoralising. “Oi, Dad. I’m your only son. A little favouritism wouldn’t go astray now and again. You don’t have to treat me the same as everybody else. Please, please, please, just tell me you’re proud of me, okay?” 😛

The last one fit in perfectly at his work. He was a workaholic. He made work his whole life. I think he put everything into work, so didn’t have much life outside of work… He wasn’t in touch with his feelings. I couldn’t talk to him about anything deep or intense.

Is the universe trying to tell me something? Hm, yes. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me something. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me that I should lighten up and stop trying so darn hard to be unique. Maybe too much authenticity is as bad as too little authenticity? One still wants to be relatable, right? 😉

All of my LOs probably had less talent than me. However, they were good at playing the social game, and showing themselves friendly. Sometimes just being “known” by key people in an organisation is vastly more important than mad skills and whatnot. Talent probably doesn’t matter much to employers. (If you’re a likeable person, people will assume you have talent, or assign you a lowly-paid assistant to do the stuff you can’t do). Also, a lot of people get ahead coz their PARENTS were known to the key people. Nepotism and capitalism are by no means mutually exclusive “isms”. 😉

It’s taken me a long time to accept that human beings are social creatures first and foremost. Anyone who can play the social game – and hopefully still be a decent person while doing it – will go far. If you’re got influential and well-connected parents, even better.

On the bright side, this insight means I can actually slack off way more in all areas of my life, and no one will actually notice or care. It’s not called laziness anymore, my sweet; it’s called “strategically conserving one’s energy”. What I lack in productivity, for example, I can always make up for in cheesy smiles and unoriginal but disarmingly sincere questions about people’s weekends! Of course, I’m exaggerating a little for fun, but I think you get the gist… 😆

The problem with us introverts is we put too much emphasis on all the wrong things. Forget Graphics and Ancient History. Small talk and social climbing should be taught as subjects in high school. 😉

Sammy,
I feel the same way. I feel no nostalgia for where I grew up. I don’t care if I ever see the place again.
One thing I have noticed about my LOs is that they always part of the group, unlike me who has always been way over on left field. 🙂 They are the guys who are being promoted at work by management or pushed along in school as “the talented ones.” It’s interesting because I can’t relate to it at all but it fascinates me. They fit so perfectly within the context of their environments. Although I think that quality, over the long-term, would probably get on my nerves. Especially the ones who needed so much to be liked, but short term, it got my attention.