Bewitched,
“so there is less giving a sh1t about what anyone else thinks. No more People Pleasing!”
It’s that you get a better sense of who you are, what you want and what your boundaries are.

@Marcia

“Is ferocious a synonym for mean? 🙂”

Could be. I was thinking more ‘fierce’ in the metaphorical as well as the literal sense 😉

I would be scared if my other half was a woman turning 50. Apparently, apart from all the obvious biological changes, oxytocin goes down, so there is less giving a sh1t about what anyone else thinks. No more People Pleasing!

Bewitched,
“You certainly come across who knows what they want now, though, undoubtedly via painful means.”
The last LE did a number on me. I’m embarrassed by the crap I put up with from my LO. It’s cringey.

“And that’s why we get so ferocious in our 40s and 50s 😉”
Is ferocious a synonym for mean? 🙂

@Marcia,

“repeated flirting with the same man, over time … I’d want it to be with someone who I liked and who was serious about liking me back. And going to do something about it. Otherwise, go away. 🙂 This flirtatious-tension-forever-limbo-crap … it does nothing for me anymore.”

You certainly come across who knows what they want now, though, undoubtedly via painful means. But there is something beautiful about being able to learn from painful episodes. And that’s why we get so ferocious in our 40s and 50s 😉

Bewtiched,

“We can probably make a distinction with all-round shallow micro appreciation (‘nice hair!’ or whatever) which most people value from just about everybody. But that’s more about generally feeling good and confident about yourself.”
Yeah, I agree. I’m not going to turn down a nice compliment from a hot man. 🙂 But repeated flirting with the same man, over time … I’d want it to be with someone who I liked and who was serious about liking me back. And going to do something about it. Otherwise, go away. 🙂 This flirtatious-tension-forever-limbo-crap … it does nothing for me anymore.

” I think where things get confused is when the “romantic hooverers” target people for romantic-type attention in a catch-all micro-attention context or quantity. Not good! Not cool and definitely not attractive.”
If someone always goes into a room with flirtatious energy, it’s because they need a lot of attention. And as you get older, you come to understand that that attention doesn’t mean anything.

“Its about wisdom too, I think. We were all insecure and maybe a bit attention starved when younger (I know I was in my teens and early 20s), but I grew out of it. Apparently, not everybody does!”
I’ll admit to being a little slow. I was a bit older … 🙂 But it doesn’t appeal to me now.

Dear Marcia,

“I think: How much attention do you need? I think it’s also that I find a lot of intentionless flirtation kind of silly. I wonder: Why are we doing this? ”

Yes, completely. And so silly. I also think ‘he must be so insecure to need all that attention’. I mean, everybody likes attention (see below) but, in order for it to count for me, romantic attention has to be from someone I value and respect. Like, random everyday attention is not a romantic indicator because the latter requires exclusivity. We can probably make a distinction with all-round shallow micro appreciation (‘nice hair!’ or whatever) which most people value from just about everybody. But that’s more about generally feeling good and confident about yourself. I think where things get confused is when the “romantic hooverers” target people for romantic-type attention in a catch-all micro-attention context or quantity. Not good! Not cool and definitely not attractive.

“I just don’t want to expend the energy. I don’t have a lot left. I’d rather use it elsewhere. 🙂
And I also think: What a nightmare this guy has to be to be married to.”

Its about wisdom too, I think. We were all insecure and maybe a bit attention starved when younger (I know I was in my teens and early 20s), but I grew out of it. Apparently, not everybody does!

Bewitched,
“Thirdly, it would make him shallow, out of control, pathetic (in my eyes), etc. I guess I make a distinction between something happening by accident in an unusual set of circumstances, and something far more routine, involving multiple overlapping non monogamous lines of interest, which I associate more with narcissistic or attention/validation hoovering types. Those people are a complete turn off especially in middle age when a person really ought to know better.”
I totally agree. I watch a married, middle-aged male co-worker putting out the bait for multiple women, and it’s a turn off. I think: How much attention do you need? I think it’s also that I find a lot of intentionless flirtation kind of silly. I wonder: Why are we doing this? Maybe this attitude comes with middle age. I just don’t want to expend the energy. I don’t have a lot left. I’d rather use it elsewhere. 🙂
And I also think: What a nightmare this guy has to be to be married to.

You refreshed a memory. Though my regards to LO’s gentleman friend was less about jealousy than trust, towards the end, I can understand what you are feeling. When I first heard she was seeing someone (when I met her she was single, recently divorced) I was jealous that I was receiving less attention from her and she was giving more to him. How dare he! She’s mine! (Sounds silly now remembering I thought that.)

On her last day at the job. I was sitting out in the lobby of the offices at a desk where I could see into her office. Her gentleman friend came by to visit her. They talked for a bit and then he left. Being a single mother, LO had her daughter with her that day and a friend of her daughter’s with her. I was still sitting in the lobby when he came back. He had brought all three of them snowcones. It was in the middle of summer. And if anyone talked to LO or her daughter for more than five minutes knew they both loved snowcones. My first thought seeing this? “Dammit I gotta like this guy!”

I’ve never felt jealous after her last day. I’ll be there like Flash if he needs some reminding of how little a deterrent a life sentence if for a man my age if he does not appreciate what he has with those two young ladies. But never felt jealous again. Just protective.

Hey Mila,

You are so right!

“there was a Stop- sign for every eventuality, to hell with logic, as long as it helps.”

This is so motivating for me too. In my case, the Stop sign for every line of thought and argument was the futility argument – LO is an exercise in futility and must always be viewed as such. If every road in your thoughts leads to a Stop sign, it means you’re in a good place because it imposes a logic when the illogical alternative is fantasy and daydreaming.

The dissonant illogical thoughts are ok too, as long as they help (about him fancying other people being a turn-off/but who care if he does) and I am aware of them, which helps. I feel that these thoughts are like a throwback or a hangover from earlier in my LE when I was out of my mind.

I have always been a romantic, which led me down the garden path in this LE. But luckily, I am analytical and logical too, so I just need to switch that side on and the other side off.

I hope @Imho has a great day today, and is *blithely indifferent*, when it matters. This is something for us ladies to channel, blithe indifference….complete with a set of shades and some expensive perfume 🙂
And a nail file…..

„ Yes, there is a cognitive dissonance in holding two contradictory things in mind (‘if he fancies someone else I will go off him instantly’ / ‘he can fancy who he likes, it makes no difference to me’), which means I must still not be completely over this but I am getting there slowly.“
Bewitched, anything that helps! I cannot remember the exact train of thought, but I remember that a contradicting set of theories helped me too, because then there was a Stop- sign for every eventuality, to hell with logic, as long as it helps.