Can love and limerence coexist? Or are love and limerence two mutually exclusive categories, as even the title of Tennov’s own book suggests?

Some thoughts regarding monogamy:

Like Dr. David Perl, a medical doctor/psychotherapist who helps people with limerence, I agree that feelings aren’t inherently wrong. However, there is a little catch, and the catch is this. Not all feelings we have as human beings need to be acted on. A distinction must be made, as you say, between feelings and actions.

I think monogamy comes up as a vexing issue for people in limerence because the strength/intensity of limerent feelings is truly mind-boggling. It’s very hard for the human brain to wrap itself around something as primal and powerful as profound infatuation.

Dr. Perl also offers the interesting insight that not all feelings need to be disclosed. In other words, it’s perfectly okay for human beings to have all sorts of feelings of attraction. However, not all of these feelings need to be acted on and not all these feelings need to be disclosed (and certainly not to the LO).

Dr. Perl himself made the mistake of disclosing to his LO, because both he and his LO were interested in and/or involved in psychotherapy. His clinical training taught him to be transparent about his feelings. He thought maybe the attraction could be talked through. In actual fact, disclosure only made things worse.

For me, yes. My sober mind wanders easier to her and said memories of her much easier than when intoxicated. The only reason I have come up with, as Dr L pointed out, alcohol messes with my brain chemistry. I think that is why I get no “limerent reward” when I think about her intoxicated, as I do when I am sober and my mind is working properly. I can remember a memory of her and that is it all it is a memory. Something reminded me of that memory and I go “I remember that time” and move on. There is no need for reverie.

Sammy,

Wish you a very smooth sailing in your new romance! If you wish, let us know your good news.

Wish the situation relating to your dad’s health is not adding more stress in your life…

Thank you for your kind words Sammy and thanks for always writing in style that breaks limerence symptoms down to a tee. I appreciate you.
🤗🤗

@MJ.

Hugs to you, my brother. Thank you for writing such a lovely post. 🙂

Sometimes, in the midst of our suffering, we forget that other people suffer too. (Just as my straight male LO suffered when his wife left him). 🤔

“I’d argue that gay males (when the limerence is focused on a straight male LO) actually experience significantly more debilitating symptoms of limerence than straight male counterparts. The reason for more debilitating symptoms is greater obstacles.”

“It is a special kind of hell to desire (involuntarily) something that one can never possess.”

@Sammy,

As a straight male, I feel like in my situation, LO got so ingrained in my head because looks-wise, she was the embodiment of perfection. So in turn was then perceived from the get-go by my psyche, to be so far out of my league, that instinctively I knew it wouldn’t or couldn’t ever be possible. Yet as to be expected by a Sensor LO, she turned all that doubt upside down when she smiled at me and eye contact intensity increased. All they really were, were lousy breadcrumbs, but I subsisted on those breadcrumbs like they were a gourmet meal.. To me this was the equivalent of limerence insanity..

“The limerent will struggle to recover fully if LO remains in the picture. Also, as Lucy Bain notes, limerence always hurts. Limerence isn’t just some cute crush. Limerence is a big deal – the limerent’s entire nervous system wants to pair-bond with LO. Decades of on-again-off-again depression/suicidal thoughts can ensue if the desired outcome is not secured. It’s vile to toy with people’s emotions…”

Limerence does infact always hurt. It is far beyond just a crush. I did actually think about suicide. I don’t even consider myself in an all out LE anymore, but still wish I could see LO. Maybe try talking to her if I could get the crust to do so or just say hi. Reading this post reminds of all the reasons why I shouldn’t though. Because that 👆🏻 is exactly how it felt at peak and not ever attaining her just disappoints me I couldn’t. It still hurts.. For whatever inadequacy I couldn’t come to terms with. It just didn’t happen. The sadness over it not happening never seems to dissipate. I’ll still cry a river if all the elements of disappointment over her are right. This must be part of the fallout.

The fact that another human being is attracted to someone else is insanely unremarkable and not at all a big deal. It’s the acting on it and choosing to violate the betrayed partner in the process and without their consent that makes it a character problem and not a relationship problem. I don’t like that a few vocal cheaters get to act as if monogamy is a waste of time. It’s like asking thieves if they believe people have a right to ownership and enforcement of those rights when they’re violated. Of course they would say no.

(1) Why does limerence exist/Limerence as peacock’s tail.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding the analogy, but it seems to me that being really devoted to a potential partner is only an effective reproductive strategy if LO is impressed with said devotion. If LO isn’t impressed with said devotion, limerence is actually a lousy reproductive strategy i.e. lots of wasted time and misdirected efforts. 🙂

(2) Do LGBT+ persons experience limerence differently?

Well, I can’t speak for the “L’s” and the “B’s” and the “T’s” and all the other delightful little bunny wabbits in the club. But, as a gay male, I would say yes and no. 🤣🤣🙄😁

I think, on the one hand, gay male sexuality is less “comprehensive” than straight male sexuality (since our bodies are designed for reproduction, and there is something singularly satisfying about the combination of masculine and feminine energies in an intimate union). On the other hand, I’d argue that gay males (when the limerence is focused on a straight male LO) actually experience significantly more debilitating symptoms of limerence than straight male counterparts. The reason for more debilitating symptoms is greater obstacles.

It is a special kind of hell to desire (involuntarily) something that one can never possess. The desire, or obsession, or whatever one wants to call it, is going to destroy the gay male’s psyche from the inside out. The only cure is self-awareness – a self-awareness so thorough by necessity that it ends up driving total self-actualisation. The only silver lining is some gay males may find pleasure in their own hormonal activity i.e. a bit of dopamine can be nice, but not too much.

Recently, I have discovered that I have different physiological responses to straight male LOs and gay male LOs. For example, around my straight male LO, I felt crazy drug-like euphoria and a racing heart. His mere physical presence definitely overloaded my nervous system. Last week, a gay male romantic interest (potential LO?) re-entered my life after a 3-4-year absence. The reunion was actually very beautiful. He remembered me, and I felt great happiness, but I would say this happiness stopped short of euphoria. I also felt butterflies, but no racing heart. He made eye contact and smiled at me. He waited for me to respond. I made eye contact and smiled back. He glowed with pleasure, etc, etc.

I wonder if I experienced “destructive limerence” for my straight male LO from high school, and if I’m experiencing “healthy infatuation” for my gay male romantic interest?

Also, there’s some difference in the perceptions my brain has of straight men vs gay males, which could have to do with my own deepening emotional maturity. With my straight male LO, I felt like I was dealing with a supernatural entity. He was a tough nut to crack. With my gay male LO, I feel like I’m dealing with a supernatural entity AND a human being. My gay male LO and I actually connect on a human level, in addition to symptoms of nervous symptom hyperarousal e.g. butterflies. My straight male LO and I never really connected on a human level in my humble opinion. He was always “so tantalisingly close and yet just out of reach”, as one might expect of someone with an incompatible sexual orientation.

I am in agreement with some female readers of LwL that maybe the word “limerence” should be reserved for episodes of “destructive limerence”. However, if limerence is a scientific term with a fixed meaning rooted in human biology, we can’t change the meaning unless such change is fully supported by scientific evidence. Possibly, for some persons experiencing limerence, completely external factors such as the availability/unavailability of a given LO determine the course limerence takes. 🤔

(3) Limerence and monogamy.

I actually think limerence (when it’s mutual and experienced in early adulthood) is MORE likely to inspire people to embrace the ideal of social monogamy. E.g. “I’ve found ‘the one’ and I don’t want anyone else. Everyone must feel the way I do (i.e. blissed out). Monogamy obviously makes sense as a unit of social organisation. Everyone is as madly in love with their spouse as I am with my spouse currently.”

It’s only when one encounters subsequent LOs/LEs during the lifespan that one might be tempted to rethink one’s philosophical stance on the ideal of social monogamy. Most first-time enthusiastic experiencers of limerence don’t anticipate the fact they may go on to have repeated bouts of profound infatuation.

(4) Reluctant LOs. Tell the limerent matter-of-factly you’re not interested in anything romantic. Immediately end the friendship if at all possible. Give the limerent a chance to develop soppy feelings for someone else. You gotta be “cruel to be kind”. Lovesick people (in my own personal experience) are rarely fun to be around. (Hence, my frequent avoidance of LwL. No offence, peoples!) 🙂

The limerent will struggle to recover fully if LO remains in the picture. Also, as Lucy Bain notes, limerence always hurts. Limerence isn’t just some cute crush. Limerence is a big deal – the limerent’s entire nervous system wants to pair-bond with LO. Decades of on-again-off-again depression/suicidal thoughts can ensue if the desired outcome is not secured. It’s vile to toy with people’s emotions…

Finally, congrats to Dr. L for how well his YouTube videos are doing lately. I note with interest the “Why Them?” video now has 98k views (likely to be the first to crack 100k views) and the next-highest-ranking video “What’s Makes Some People So Addictive?” has 88k views. Either the algorithm on YouTube is strangely skewed, or viewers are very clear about the type of content they’re seeking out, and the particular questions they want answered. It seems to me that everyone wants credible explanations of obsession. Obsession fascinates people. 😉

I have found mindfulness works up to a point. Before you get hit full on by the limerence bus, you learn to recognise the signs. If I’m starting to feel heady in someone’s presence, I check myself and ask ‘where is this feeling coming from’? This tends to check the urge to project all your long repressed feelings onto the potential LO, prevents you from idealising them and returns your own sense of agency. But once the bus hits, that obviously becomes harder.