Thanks @Mila. We definitely would have to sell the house and use the proceeds to buy places for each of us. My wife doesn’t think she’ll ever be able to afford a place on her own, but I think she’s wrong. House prices are very expensive here, but I think there are options. Also, I would be completely willing to be fair to her to ensure that she’s taken care of financially. But that is her main worry. I think she is more worried about the financial aspect than worried about losing me.

You and others are absolutely right about the Facebook request. It feels like a rejection, especially after things went so well the last time I saw her it seems a little perplexing, but I did know in advance that she is a very private person and that she isn’t Facebook friends with a whole lot of people. I also know that she isn’t that active on Facebook, although I know she probably does quite a bit on messenger. I do also have a strange feeling. She has some kind of secret. There’s something about this lady, even though she’s fantastic, that tells me there is something she is trying to hide from people and I’m not sure what it is. Even if there is some dark secret from her past or something like that, I don’t think it would turn me off. I really have no wish to stalk this woman. I know that she lives just around the corner from my friend, but I have no wish to know exactly where. Sure I’ve googled her and looked her up on Facebook, but that’s it. There’s a limit. I would never want to cause her to feel unsafe or uncomfortable in my presence. Next time I see her, I’m gonna carry on as before, but possibly just allow her a little bit of an out so that she has a little bit more of an opportunity to talk to other people. Should she choose to do so. I also think she is just simply wary about getting too close to a married man who is showing her definite signs of interest. I really can’t blame her. I’m well aware that there are men out there who are married who try to have affairs with women and lie to them by telling them that they’re going to leave their wives for them. That isn’t the case with me, but how is she supposed to know that? She still doesn’t really know me all that well even though I’m friends with quite a few of her friends.

„ In other words, by expressing the negativity I feel toward my mother, I’m suddenly free to feel positive emotions toward her again too.“
That’s very interesting!
I‘m out of my depth here since I never pondered on parent-child relations very much.

„ I’ll address them to you simply because you’re the person who visited LwL most recently in the comments. If other people are allowed to ramble on, I guess I’m allowed to ramble on too…“

Be my guest! (Hope that’s a valid expression) Ramble on, I rambled a lot here, but I think I‘ll take a break.

The substantial, changing quality of space and time
is painfully appreciated.
Instinctual sentiment is headless and astronomical drive.
Supposition sounding logic ruling — is the wishful mind!
Limerence fire spreads and engulfs limerent soul.
Around clock chasing the ever present drunk hopes.
Long, drawn-out suffering is not what we’re after.
Foggy, diligent search for hidden answers in Selfs.
Studying aspects of the reverie, old and new.
Conscious and unconscious scanning of
oscillating perception and reciprocation,
Now and here, then and there.
Amber cushion softly evident and
Black lava harshly obvious LwL commentary,
can we prevail and heal?

🐦‍🔥

Ten, Tenth, 24

The substantial, changing quality of space and time
is painfully appreciated.
Instinctual sentiment is headless and astronomical drive.
Supposition sounding logic ruling — is the wishful mind!
Limerence fire spreads and engulfs a limerent soul.
Around clock chasing the ever present drunken hopes.
Long, drawn-out suffering is not what we’re after.
Foggy, diligent search for hidden answers in Selfs.
Studying aspects of the reverie, the highest delight.
Conscious and unconscious scanning of
oscillating perception and reciprocation
Amber cushion softly evident and
Black lava harshly obvious LwL commentary,
can we prevail and heal?

🐦‍🔥

NINE, 86

Anne Tardos

The insubstantial and changing quality of space is appreciated.
Intellectual understanding is based on harmless and spontaneous perception.
Supposition gold-digger advocating pleasure—be the laughing stock!
Amber cushion softly evident seagull commentary, we shall prevail.
Tirelessly pedaling along the ever present source of ideas.
Long, drawn-out suffering is not what we’re after.
Palpably diligent search for the hidden order in art.
Studying aspects of artistic imagination, the kinds of attention.
Conscious and unconscious scanning of perceptual stress and oscillation.

**********
Ten, Tenth, 24

The substantial, changing quality of space and time
is painfully appreciated.
Instinctual sentiment is headless and astronomical drive.
Supposition sounding logic ruling — is the wishful mind!
Limerence fire spreads and engulfs a limerent soul.
Around clock chasing the ever present drunken hopes.
Long, drawn-out suffering is not what we’re after.
Foggy, diligent search for hidden answers in Selfs.
Studying aspects of the reverie, the highest of delights.
Conscious and unconscious scanning of
oscillating perceptions and conceptions.
Amber cushion softly evident and
Black lova husly obvious LwL commentary,
can we prevail and heal?

🐦‍🔥

These Poems

June Jordan
1936 –2002

These poems
they are things that I do
in the dark
reaching for you
whoever you are
and
are you ready?

These words
they are stones in the water
running away

These skeletal lines
they are desperate arms for my longing and love.

I am a stranger
learning to worship the strangers
around me

whoever you are
whoever I may become.

*****
Time and space make LO or MFF alike
A nostalgic stranger, one after another
Even one’s Selfs, in and out limerence
A awakened stranger to each other

🐦‍🔥

I noticed some weird sentence fragments above. It was a result of me dictating my response by voice. I thought I had corrected the issues, but I guess not! LOL.

Some more thoughts I’m having today. I’ll address them to you simply because you’re the person who visited LwL most recently in the comments. If other people are allowed to ramble on, I guess I’m allowed to ramble on too…

My gut instinct, even as a teenager, has always been to fight limerence and not to succumb to it. Most other people seem wired the other way round. When I met my LO, for example, both he and I were single. I didn’t really take my Christian beliefs all that seriously. He didn’t take his Christian beliefs all that seriously. Why not act? (Well, apart from the tiresome fact he obviously didn’t reciprocate?)

Today the answer came to me: I’ve always resisted limerence because there is something in the world I value/d more than my LO’s love, and that’s my mother’s high opinion of me. My mother would never have accepted my LO into my life. My mother does take her Christian beliefs seriously. I’ve realised that I love my mother very deeply, even though I also believe she belongs in a nice lunatic asylum. On subconscious level, her approval is/was very important to me.

So, very interesting, huh? Love of Mummy trumps love of LO. Well done, Mummy. Well done. It only took you twenty-five years to win that game of chess.

I saw my mother today. I refuse to take her calls because she doesn’t treat me with enough respect. (I’m surreptitiously educating her on how to behave. Progress has been slow yet steady). However, she’s been stalking me lately like Diana, Goddess of the Hunt, and she finally managed to track me down…

I was out walking in the rain. She got out of the car and wanted a hug, so I gave her a hug. She’s been having hip trouble, so we exchanged a few friendly words about her hip. She seemed very pleased I already knew all about her hip trouble. (I fastidiously avoid talking to my mother, but I make it my business to keep abreast of her medical issues. I love her, but from a safe distance).

I think I finally understand my parents’ marital problems. My mother is/was a very controlling woman. My father is/was a very passive man. My mother’s controlling behaviour makes my father more passive. My father’s passivity makes my mother more controlling. It’s a vicious cycle from which the two of them can’t escape. They reinforce each other’s biggest emotional weaknesses.

I’ve finally accepted that it’s not my job to help my parents escape the controlling-passive dynamic. That’s their relationship, and I’m a separate person who has nothing to do with their relationship. When I don’t meddle in my parents’ (post-marital) relationship, they seem to get along okay. They actually have no choice but to get along okay, since there’s no third party refereeing conflict. You can’t sustain a drama triangle with only two players.

Gender relations: this may be unconventional wisdom, but I do believe that adult men and adult women in interpersonal relationships should be allowed to express the negative emotions they feel toward each other as well as the positive emotions they feel toward each other. I don’t think the expression of negative emotions toward the opposite sex should be taboo.

For example, since admitting to myself that I struggle with extremely heightened levels of misogyny, I’ve reconnected with the part of my heart that really loves my mother. In other words, by expressing the negativity I feel toward my mother, I’m suddenly free to feel positive emotions toward her again too. It’s as if a “ban on expressing/feeling negative emotions toward the opposite sex” means a ban on expressing/feeling all emotions toward the opposite sex. But often great love and tenderness is buried under layers of hate and anger and resentment, etc.

(Obviously, I resent Mummy from time to time. Mummy, in the best of times, is just a tad controlling. Most mothers are controlling. Possessiveness is a fairly natural part of motherhood. When women are partnered with weak men, however, women become even more controlling than usual. I think controlling behaviour in adult human females is frequency a sign/symptom of stress).

I saw my barista friend again. I realised I don’t know what I want to be to him. Sometimes, I feel like his father. Sometimes, I feel like his son. Sometimes, I feel like his brother. Sometimes, I feel like his lover. He gave me a lingering look as I walked past his table. He was wearing a baseball cap. I patted him on the head twice and kept on walking. (My way of saying goodbye, and also publicly acknowledging he’s important to me. My own father would never acknowledge publicly I was important to him). For one hot minute, I thought I was entering my “villain era”. But nope. False alarm. I think I might be in my “father era”. 🙂

Hi VC,

in case of a divorce you would have to find a solution to the house situation too, no? Otherwise a divorce would be just on paper, you living on and on under the same roof?
The priority is maybe finding a way to follow the separation rule, so that you can finally move things forward. Does some of your friend have a spare room or something? But maybe don‘t do anything without advice from a lawyer first, I have actually no experience and live in another country.
It’s just that your situation sounds so bad for you that I get the impression that it’s urgent to get out. There must be a way!
That must take priority over any LO rumination, would be my assessment.

I would take the advice of your friend not to overthink this LO situation. People handle their Facebook/Instagram very differently, my SO hardly ever checks his friend requests or answers messages, while I’m quite diligent in checking and answering. Also, a friend of mine accepted a friend request of mine several years later, us being friends in real life for the whole time.
And maybe she‘s just not resolved yet, what kind of guy you are, maybe she doesn’t know you enough and is wary that you might stalk her or something? In that case it would be the worst possible reaction to go cold on her, because it would look as if you are really unduly invested in her and take this Facebook request inappropriately serious (which you do;) as any limerent would do! but it might scare her).
Maybe there’s something on her profile she doesn’t like you to see- there are many, many possibilities. Don’t put too much weight on it!

Thanks again @Lim-a-rant. Unfortunately, house prices and rents are very expensive here. There is barely enough money for one household, never mind two. There is also the problem of what to do with my daughter. Things are still very strained between her and my wife. My daughter at times has told me that she will never forgive me if I don’t get her out of this toxic and abusive environment with my wife. Now, things have changed a little bit for the better since my daughter started college, but they’re still not very good between the two of them. There is fault on both sides, but the problem is my wife is the responsible adult and she can be quite abusive towards my daughter. My daughter wants out too.

In my case, it isn’t just a situation where we are in a dead marriage, but my wife is bossy, controlling manipulative, and downright abusive towards me as well. She wants to keep tabs on me constantly. She criticizes my every move and it’s just incredibly unpleasant living with her in many ways. Sure, things are pleasant and cordial probably the majority of the time, but that minority of the time is absolute intolerable. I’m not perfect either and I’m sure there’s fault on both sides, but I don’t see this as being purely about fault or blame. It just is what it is.

I’m not sure when I will next see my LO. It probably will be at least a few weeks. The little break might actually be a good thing. She will be hanging out with my friends in a few weeks time, but I won’t be able to make it that evening. I do want to see how things transpire with her after she rejected my Facebook friend request. I had thought of basically shunning her, but I don’t think that makes a whole lot of sense. If I still like her and think there is even a slight chance, there could be something with her in the future. Once my situation changes, I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face if I decided to ignore her or be rude to her. I think I’m just going to continue on as before and be friendly with her without being overly friendly or trying to hit on her or anything like that. I’ll be sure to keep it light but still very subtly let her know that I do like her. She should know that she’s safe with me and that I’m not really going to come on strongly with her either. My friend’s advice to me was just to go out and have fun and not overthink it, and I think he’s right.