Sammy,

Typo: “which I admit, must be coming from some unknown genomic drives, which were rarely turned on by mainstream “hot men”.

I confessed to LO#5 once, “No men in reality or on screen ever appeared Hot to me, unless I glimmered at him 👁️ ….”

Ok, Sammy,

The middle section, after being edited with a couple of words or phrases, and shortened your original quote, is finally posted —see above ⬆️

@Sammy,

“I think people in mutual limerence are tempted to play little games with each other. “

Speaking for myself only, in all my LEs, I did NOT play any kind of games (nor knew/knows how), but subconsciously, ignorantly sought that missing, idealized “parental unconditioned love” in all LOs, and left them when either the barrier was too big or I found the craved parental care was missing or inadequate (in my boyish SO), instinctual attraction might be an unconscious initiator for Glimmer, but no strong craving for physical intimacy. Yet, every LO (3 platonic ones) came back repeatedly from 2-7 rounds for whatever reasons, until no “glimmer” for them left in my limerent’s eyes…

‘I don’t think these games are automatically bad, if everyone’s playing with good intentions and emotionally mature enough to understand the rules/purpose of the game..“

I suppose you’re right in ordinary situations; however, most people with cptsd have little confidence or lack security to play such good-intentioned amorous games. Psychologically “handicapped”, they often wish to be “granted” or given what their biggest need has craved for, though they may not be consciously aware…

“Think of, say, a young man and a young woman in love writing each other clever love letters – love letters which always hint at desire but never quite declare it.”

Love letters can be a part of a “game”, but also a genuine urge in people, in love/limerence or not; to reveal, and hopefully exchange, emotions and thoughts, assist to know other side, and even prompt self-discovery and self-development along the way….

“On the other hand, human brains are tricky things. I’m kind of appalled by all the jealousy and resentment I’ve felt at times (while pretending to be friends with an LO) and I realise that perhaps through naivety I put myself in harm’s way. “

A true Stoic would not let reactive emotions harm themselves, but face and accept them. In my case, as I mentioned before, I was never jealous of anyone, particularly women prior to the last LE, after its 4.5th year of its 6.5 year total duration. When finally recognizing my first jealousy in late 2022, I simply could not stop berating myself — couldn’t believe such “lowly”, poisonous emotion could have tightly grasped me!

Sammy,

Not sure why the middle section of my long reply is still being rejected, discussing about “game playing’ and jealousy, they are not even PG-12 rated.

Well, I have expressed my thoughts and kept it for my own records, that’s therapeutic enough… just can’t “win” a debate….🥹 Joking!

Sammy,

“I put myself into situations where I’d be exposed to (my own) negative emotions. Were these negative emotions caused by low serotonin I wonder?”

Exposed to and thus eecognizing one’s own negative sides, so as to know how to rein their horns, is a part of self-discovery and self-development, which often occur during some sort of adversities or crisis. I think it’s a necessary, healthy process of one’s life journey. It’s a Jungian individuation journey…. I think some negative emotions are caused by low serotonin, some by cultural conditionings, some by ideological or religious doctrines.

“The intensity of my own negative emotions at certain points in my life definitely have scared me.”

The same here with the content and intensity of my negative emotions, but I am getting calmer in facing them nowadays, and do not particularly wish to kill or run away from them, because I’m certain I won’t put my negative ideation into actions (like punch LO”s handsome face). The more I take humanistic views on my own or anyone else’s negative emotions, the more I express them (like now) without much fear, the more I am at peace with them. “The reason for evil in the world is that people are not able to tell their stories. “ — Carlos Jung

“I think limerence brought out a level of emotional insecurity in me that I didn’t know I had – and I don’t particularly or necessarily feel that way anymore. I.e. this “insecurity” was thankfully “strictly temporary insecurity”, apparently whipped up by the chemical imbalance of infatuation.”

I was mostly aware my social shyness and deep fear which are strongly connected to my insecurity, fundamentally formed through life-time cptsd, which I learned about and suffered more during this LE. Yet, unlike the previous ones, this LE finally urged and pushed me firmly onto the path of self-discovery and self-growth; therefore, through various concrete means especially since the summer (discovered LwL), I’m gradually healing my cptsd and its trigger points. Right now, without a crush or any possible new relationship on the horizon, I proudly feel NO insecurity or fear. As I told Marcia, I also seem no longer feel a need of a father figure — I probably have finally become my own PARENT! (I won’t go to see Mother today, whose habitual negativity would irrtate me somehow)

“I think if limerence leads to pronounced jealousy and exaggerated feelings of resentment, then something has gone wrong in the process. I think strong negative feelings may arise when one realises that one can’t have one’s LO, and yet one can’t turn off one’s desire for LO – a truly unenviable situation one find oneself in”.

Not entirely agree with you here: in my case, my resentment came from Sensor LO’s repeated verbal deceits, black-n-whilte lies and hoovering, in order to sustain my AFFECTION, (which was merely comprised of monologue words, without any physical touch at all), while he only gave out a superficial “friendship” crumbs. If unable or unavailable to hold another person’s affection, then bravely and honorably talk it out and let it go! But as an insecure Sensor, he intended to get hold of all — a wife, a secret pet limerent, and more….

If I knew how to play amorous game as you aforementioned, I could have him at a physical level when the chances were given. However, a true limerent is not after that, such as in my case, but an EA. Even if LO wanted to give more, he’s NOT capable of with his psychological shortcomings. Yet clearly knowing his defects, a slight of me inside still feels pulled towards his physical being, which I admit, must be coming from sone unknown genomic drives, which were really turned on by mainstream “hot men”. He also somewhat resembles the old, insecure me, for which makes me feel sympathetic, which making NC so difficult.

I was going to tell Mila yesterday that it has taken me a tremendous effort not to send any holiday greetings to LO, as we normally exchanged in the past 6 years. Last year LO initiated one on New Year’s Eve, I resisted 10 hours not to reply but gave in on the New Year’s Day. Today, at 6am right after I opened my eyes, LO’s Christmas greeting arrived, which never happened before — he does not even observe it. Now, what am I going to do? NC demands me to remain silence; colleague courtesy requires a few, superficial holiday wishes…

To reply or not to reply, that is a question! 🧐🥴

@Sammy,

Not sure why this post has encountered a “tremendous” LwL rejection to be heard… the 8th attempt now:

“I think unhealthy relationships, though, are all about power.”

I agree with your view on healthy relationships; unhealthy one is dominantly about power, but not ALL. Children’s desires for parental (caregivers’) unconditional love, is instinctual for safety and survival, not for power control. People with cptsd, at least for me, do not go after power (like Marcia, I don’t even want to be a small boss to anyone), but genuine love (sex is even excluded) or ideal love that can stand time, space and all adversities.

People with cptsd, like frightened, immature, weak-winged birds, have little interests or skills to play games intending to control even themselves, let alone anyone else. they always subconsciously “beg or slave” to get BACK their lost “initial nest” — their innate childhood needs, which as I said somewhere else earlier, could amount more powerful than all other biological drives developed later; the latter is not dead either, just repressed by cptsd needs before it is recognized and somewhat healed.

However, in normal people’s eyes or those of game players, such needy desire of cptsd often come across as “power game” players, because they could hardly understand the latter’s deepest craving, unless they have experienced it in some degree. To be honest, Sammy, after so many talks, I still don’t feel you truly know and understand the depth of my childhood traumas and the degree of my limeence’s intended aim…. I’m not upset at all, since you neither know me in reality nor my entire history, and I’m grateful and delighted that we could discuss so many topics in general. 😄

Sammy,

The site just rejected twice to post my long post. I’ll do it later.

Merry Christmas!

“To quote Brother Sammy,,”

@MJ.

Oh dear! Not the public embarrassment of being quoted! I have spent my life shunning the spotlight, I swear! Funny thing is … the spotlight always seems to find me. Maybe I have an unconscious wish to be in the spotlight? 😆

I don’t want to say anything indelicate, so I’ll just dance around the issue. But I think most limerents will understand what I mean and where I’m coming from.

When I was a teenage boy, doing the things that teenage boys invariably do, I accidentally discovered how to tap into the ecstasy-producing part of my own brain. The way I accessed this part of my brain was largely through fantasy. (Or fantasy combined with other ritualised behaviours, if you follow my drift).

The problem is that as a teenage boy I didn’t know that I’d have to pay for every “emotional up” with an equally intense “emotional down”. You see, I thought my brain was handing out free ecstasy (in the form of dopamine hits). I didn’t know that this ecstasy was very likely depleting my serotonin stores. I experienced a lot of depression as a teenage male. I wonder if the depression I experienced was the direct result of me using/overusing the part of my brain associated with the production of pleasurable feelings? Was I the (unwitting) author of my own pain?

“Sex with a loving and kind heart, with a heart of limerents is not about power,”

@Snowphoenix.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around all this myself, but I think healthy relationships of any kind aren’t about power. Healthy relationships are generally about cooperation and clear communication and finding win-win solutions to any conflicts that arise. I think unhealthy relationships, though, are all about power.

I think people in mutual limerence are tempted to play little games with each other (mostly to attract or repel the other person’s interest, depending on circumstances). I don’t think these games are automatically bad, if everyone’s playing with good intentions and emotionally mature enough to understand the rules/purpose of the game. Non-malicious game-playing between consenting adults can foster intimacy, and be a lot of fun. Think of, say, a young man and a young woman in love writing each other clever love letters – love letters which always hint at desire but never quite declare it.

On the other hand, human brains are tricky things. I’m kind of appalled by all the jealousy and resentment I’ve felt at times (while pretending to be friends with an LO) and I realise that perhaps through naivety I put myself in harm’s way. I put myself into situations where I’d be exposed to (my own) negative emotions. Were these negative emotions caused by low serotonin I wonder?

The intensity of my own negative emotions at certain points in my life definitely have scared me. (Happily, I’m not experiencing strong negative emotions at the moment, but I can look back and shake my head at certain feelings in the past and think: “Who was the person who felt that? Was that person really me?” I think limerence brought out a level of emotional insecurity in me that I didn’t know I had – and I don’t particularly or necessarily feel that way anymore. I.e. this “insecurity” was thankfully “strictly temporary insecurity”, apparently whipped up by the chemical imbalance of infatuation.

I think if limerence leads to pronounced jealousy and exaggerated feelings of resentment, then something has gone wrong in the process. I think strong negative feelings may arise when one realises that one can’t have one’s LO, and yet one can’t turn off one’s desire for LO – a truly unenviable situation ton find oneself in! 🤔

Welcome back, Wilde2011!

I read your post and kept thinking, “Why is this story so familiar?” Then I found your old post from last time. I’ll include a link because I suspect that you aren’t comfortable navigating the site, yet.

https://livingwithlimerence.com/how-to-get-rid-of-limerence/#comment-48337

It sounds like you are still suffering through your LE. I’m sorry that you’re struggling. I noticed that you feel confused about why this would happen to you. I’m sorry, but a lot of our LEs just don’t make sense. The LEs that stand out to me right now are that we’ve had a few straight women develop limerence for women. Those ladies feel very confused about why they developed limerence and I share their confusion. Limerence just doesn’t make sense sometimes.

I’m sorry that I’m not very helpful. I hope you find comfort somehow.