what is it about the limerent objects that presses those buttons and sets the process off?

This would seem to be important in dealing with a current limerent object and avoiding another, which somebody did mention I think.

As far as myself is concerned, which may be a general example of one way to proceed?

I think have identified exactly what it is;

“…”….he says, “I have only ever become limerent for “damsels in distress”. Specifically, women who are bold and confident on the outside, but hiding an emotional wound within.” The implication is his wife was a damsel in distress. In “The Glimmer givers,” he says, “There is nothing so alluring as a damaged soul you’re sure you can fix.” If that’s not a meme, it should be….. “

And for me real courage comes into it as well.

My first two [non limerent] relationships that both lasted 4-5 years each fitted this type.

I suspect I didn’t see the damaged, vulnerable and sensitive souls underneath [during pillow talk] until after the relationships were well and truly consummated.

Following just getting on well together, mutual availability, alcohol then bed.

The only two women I have copulated with.

Saw my damsel in distress in my first unconsummated heroine limerent object Julia early on and as I got to know her better she became even more amazing in that respect.

Luna my second current heroine limerent object is also like me a ‘professional scientist?’, and swans around like Lauren Bacall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Bacall

Looks like Annie Lennox in opening section of video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG7I4oniOyA

God have pity on me!

Pre-limerent;

We both attended various political and philosophical discussion groups and she once gave the most sensational and popular talks of the year with supreme aplomb [a general opinion of others] on a controversial subject not totally unrelated to this kind of thing.

Swatting away hostile questions from the floor.

She was incredibly impressive.

6 months later on 31/1/2024 somewhere around 10pm whilst in conversion with her the mask slipped and for a brief moment and I saw I thought a frightened little girl operating the controls from behind the curtain.

My firewall that had kept me celibate for 20 years after Julia disintegrated.

—————
I think there is some substance in the idea that this issue can be exacerbated with childhood issues.

As far as psychoanalysis is concerned often there are often two possible processes with this kind of thing; ‘transference’ and ‘projection’.

Transference

For instance limerence frequently occurs during psychoanalysis where the analysand becomes limerent towards the analyst.

[I seem to remember it was mentioned in the Tennov book.]

Where the analysand usually subconsciously associates the analyst with a parental figure with whom they had eg expected or hoped for reciprocated love.

Or if you were lucky actually love.

It would come under notions of ‘infantile fixation’ or maybe ‘imprinting’?

Accepting the perils of anthropomorphism.

It happens in animal rescue centres were abandoned wild baby fawns become infatuated with humans and can’t be released back into the wild.

If you transfer to the analyst as a parental figure and had evil gaslighting parent[s] there will be problems of trust; my relationship with a councillor broke down on that score.

Full rational awareness doesn’t help and it can take hours to resolve it.

It is forbidden to have counselling by someone you know and already trust; a professional psychoanalyst friend refused to help me at the risk of being struck off.

You can transfer as well from other unresolved loves.

To put it simply, doing a deep dive on ‘who do they remind you of?’

It could even be a previous self-generated limerent fantasy?

My Luna was similar to Julia in many other respects.

On Projection?

My ‘problem’ with my limerent objects Julia and Luna

[and in a totally different way- my sister?]

was a kind mirror neuron thing.

[Established as fact eg in experiments on capuchin monkeys with the recent availability of brain scans.

Eg quick google scan.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510904/

Or psychological ‘projection’.

Eg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

It can be otherwise thought of as a kind of an attempt at non verbal ‘communication’ or telepathy so it has a ‘Darwinian type function or purpose in socially interacting animals.]

Was;

My god Luna, frightened little girl behind screen! you are even better at this game than myself and I fully understand and feel (empathise with) your struggle.

Having compassion or love for yourself isn’t exactly the same as narcissism.

Interestingly I have done this without being overwhelmed [much] by biochemical interventions.

Hi Remus,

You mentioned that, “ If you deliberately work up a strong fantasy as an experiment you can physically feel the stuff flooding into you bloodstream.”

You are absolutely right. Stop it. Stop doing that intentionally. It will become intrusive thoughts and you won’t be able to control it anymore. You are using limerence for mood regulation. There are healthy ways to regulate your mood that don’t lead to addiction or misery. I recommend running. I also like the happiness expert, Arther Brooks. I will link one of his interviews from YouTube.

https://youtu.be/qRY-foz-ZAw?si=n4ABCqsnwucvrOyt

Best of luck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8wWornkZT8

Yes you are correct that understanding what is going in this [advanced internet] time is helpful.

A] It will be a Darwinian survival of the fittest biochemical/ hormone process encouraging or driving you to pair bond and imprint. Probably working inappropriately in our modern culture.

If you deliberately work up a strong fantasy as an experiment you can physically feel the stuff flooding into you bloodstream.

It is probably exasperated by the capacity to imagine or fantasize; where you can
fall in love with a self generated and false sanitised image of your object.

In childhood trauma you spend a lot of time escaping into a wonderful inner imaginary world so it can probably become a bad habit as far as this limerence is concerned.

As you never see inside peoples heads you will always be in love with a perception of them. How accurate that is depends on the honesty and sincerity of the object who may even be self delusional about themselves and your own capacity to critically appraise the object.

And being generous and tending to see good in people becomes a fault.

[My GP whilst on a checkup referred me to eventually a child psychologist at the age of 3-4. ]

B] It happens to all sorts of people and not just the ones who have read Wuthering Heights too often.

Although it is possible and helpful to see the funny side of it sometimes

I was a 33 year old ish ‘senior’ scientific officer [forensic analytical chemistry] of a large manufacturing company and a crisis had evolved at work that I had predicted in good time and warned about.

On the eve of a big meeting with customers of which I was key, I told my first limerent object Julia that I loved her; the two events were probably psychologically connected.

She panicked [apparently] and I melted down, turned up late and still drunk the next day and sobbing locked myself in the toilet in the R&D block and wouldn’t come out.

The following 2minute clip and whole limerent episode is funny, thoughtful and interesting as; feckless shock jock misogynist falls in love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd8tsMqllu8

I fully sympathise with how bad it must be having a limerent experience with someone inappropriate. However I fully analysed and understood why I was in love with Julia, I regularly saw her over a period of seven years she was and still is a wonderful lovable person.

I tried fictional transference to get over her. Started to fantasize through association about a tv starlet ‘young Saffy’ from Absolutely Fabulous.

My Julia looked like and behaved like her and was actually about 25 year old playing a 18 year old.

I think it helped to muddle and confuse the bio-chemistry.

Went fully limerent on Luna at 10;45pm 31/1/2024 felt it happening and ran out of the room 10 minutes later, she was annoyed at that. I last saw her on 28/2/2024, and she was about to go travelling around the world for two months.

I really do think humour helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMy-erDsDw

Hi Remus,
I am sorry to hear this. You said that you “jumped into that river again, and can’t get out now; and it feels like I am in the same place as last time but this time fully aware of all the agony that lies in front of me”
Do you think that your prior experience and the awareness of what limerence is might help a little this time to overcome limerence?
As a first-time limerent in my middle age I am still coping with the pain and fallout of my first LE for the past several years but I feel that being aware of what is happening to me in the latter stages of this and knowing that I am literally training my brain on him, helps me to un-train my brain again. I don’t think that I would fall into another LE after this, or not as hard, because now I am aware that it is all a work of fiction created by myself. What I really need to do is work out why it happened to me, then address that instead of wasting time on this LE. Certainly, you seem very aware of your own vulnerability due to your childhood experiences and this is something that is difficult to address, but still, I sincerely hope that this is possible for you.
The “love yourself” mindset is so important, developing your own self worth and being open to appreciation of your place in your work, community, relationships, as a citizen of planet earth (whatever works for you). If you are three months in to this LE, you may still be in the euphoric stages, whereas, you know that later on it all gets super-anxious, self conscious and horrid. Perhaps you can try to avoid those painful later stages by minimising the reverie/self medication in the early stages of limerence?
At the same time, it is so important to take care of yourself, to compensate for what your brain will feel like it is losing.

I am however unattached and totally limerent at the moment; towards an unattached woman I will call Luna.

I suffered from it about 20 years ago for 7 years with another woman who remained unattached over that period [I declared my love to her] and felt like it was ripping my soul apart and I swore that I would never jump in and get swept away in that ‘fast flowing water’ again.

Maybe it is harder when there are no ethical obstacles in the way to encourage you to climb out?

Truly traumatized by the experience I had been sexually and emotionally abstinent since.

After knowing and being attracted to Luna for about 2 years I briefly let go of my feelings for her one evening 3 months ago whilst weakened by alcohol, jumped into that river again , and can’t get out now; and it feels like I am in the same place as last time but this time fully aware of all the agony that lies in front of me.

I went to a therapist over it recently and she recommended that I overcome my childhood fear of rejection and abandonment [got that in spades for good reasons] and I suppose keep jumping into fast flowing water; until I get lucky?

As Dorothy Tennov makes clear I think in her book it is an experience that has to be suffered to be understood and there is no way to intellectualise or psychoanalyse yourself out of it.

I was a limerent object myself about 10 years ago for over three years and have been re reading all the Emails she sent me over that period to help me with a different personal perspective?

I made it clear to her from the beginning that there was no hope with me and tried so very hard to be kind to her as well as exaggerating all my faults.

I think limerent objects need advice as well.

Hi Peter, welcome to LwL. You have strong feelings for another woman. If you love her then you’ll respect the marriages. You won’t cross socially accepted lines. You might need to make a list of things you aren’t willing to do with her to keep yourself grounded. If you can’t respect boundaries, you need to go no contact with her.

The best thing for her is a healthy relationship with her husband. If you love her, you won’t interfere with her relationship. Also, if you want to be a friend to her, you can’t be a threat to her marriage. Friends lift us up and strengthen us, they don’t tear down our important relationships.

Here is something to add to your list of boundaries

No kissing

Best of luck!

Hi Peter,

That darn chemistry — gets us every time! It’s very likely you are having mutual chemistry and possible limerence. Maybe even in love. Whatever it is, it is certainly reciprocated.

Since you do want what’s best for her, it sounds more like love. But if you are not planning on leaving your marriage, nor her her long-term relationship, it will be a crazy-maker.

My husband and I had a really hard decade in our marriage — not much intimacy or laughter either. We did seek counseling, and a few years ago we had quite a positive turn in both areas. Is there any way you and your wife could try to reestablish that?

I am not saying this will fix your limerence — I am a chronic limerent and have to fight daily to stop/avoid potential limerences from happening — but it may help you feel more fulfilled in your marriage if you both work on it?

Oh, yeah, and you may have to cut off your working relationship with this coworker if you really want to stop the limerence or in-love feelings from getting out of hand.

Just my thoughts.

Wishing you the best possible outcomes for you both! 💙

I am definitely limerant in the sense that my thoughts are pretty obsessive and invasive. My problem is that I’m not sure whether this is actual limerance or just love. I’m married with two kids in Australia…my marriage has its intimacy problems and has had for many years. Nothing toxic about it, we just have a very hard time connecting properly, don’t make each other laugh much and there is very little sexual or emotional connectedness left. I went to Europe to do a job for 8 months. 3 of which my family came an lived with me. During that 8 months I fell pretty hard into love / limerance with a work colleague. I disclosed that I was attracted, she did not reject me. The feelings were mutual….we kissed a bit. The next day we talked about it and said that we had to slam the door shut on it because we both are in long term committed relationships, both have kids (hers with an exhusband but she’s with another man for the last few years). And more importantly we loved the creative work relationship (film industry). One of the best creative partnerships I’ve had and she feels the same. So, basically I know she has feelings for me…you can just tell. She admitted that had circumstances been different, it would have been different. We parted ways, i went back to Australia for a year then she invited me over to Europe to work on another short term job. This was to be the normalising normalising job where we would re-set and just work together normally as colleagues. It started fine, but by the time the 5 week job was done (now) I am deep in my infatuation again. The thing is when you read about limerance they often talk about it “not being based on real connection or knowing the other person”. But I feel I do know her, understand her, my feelings are of love and affection and admiration. I wish only the best for her. It does NOT feel like it has anything to do with validating my own self esteem….we just click, really click and I can see who she is underneath and I love it….that’s all there is too it. Am i limerant or simply just in love? There’s no doubt I am trying to find in her what I don’t get in my current relationship, but that doesn’t mean I’m deluded. Much of the literature about limerance seems to imply it’s a kind of love delusion…this does not feel like that. Thoughts?