“If anything, the thought that I’ll “rescue her” fueled my limerence even more.”

T

I understand you exactly. She was a single mother of two daughters divorced from a man that cheated on her. I thought I could rescue her. Be and treat her like a man should. But unlike other female colleagues of the past and present I knew this woman was firing up something more in me.

Yeah the silencing of the executive brain and giving into the limerence (whether you know that’s what it is or not) is quite easy to give into. As you mentioned you start seeing this person as “more than human”. It is a hard high to come down from when you put LO on that high of a pedestal.

Not sure if you have found this post of Dr. L’s but it sounds right up your alley with your above statement. I know that it really resonated with me when I first read it.

https://livingwithlimerence.com/limerence-and-the-rescue-fantasy/

” I knew it was for good yet I felt like I no longer know how to function in the real world.”

It will get better. It took me 6 months after she left my life to find this community and learn what had happened to me. And an additional year to come to where I am now that I can move past this and salvage my marriage and life. I don’t know if you are in a committed relationship or not but recovery is possible depending on your SO. But you can find a great amount of help here between Dr L’s posts and the community’s comments. This place has been instrumental in me getting to where I am now. Which where I was …. let’s just say some of my early comments were down right scary to read now. So stick around if you want to. :thumbsup:

All the red flags were there since the beginning. They were there even before we first spoke to each other. I felt a mix of anxiety and euphoria I never felt before. I started to construct my life, my identity around her. I literally rewired my brain.

We started fast. Or rather, I did. I took a literal dive in her. She was honest with me and clearly surprised by my enthusiasm despite all the “red flags” her past shows. I think at one point she even tried to warn me that I might get burned by saying she feels I’m “too good for her”. I did not care. My CEO had no power, I completely silenced him. If anything, the thought that I’ll “rescue her” fueled my limerence even more.

Still, for the first few months, it was good. I felt like on drugs. I gave my 200%. She reciprocated but on a more “healthy” level. Someone from the outside would say that I’m just deeply “in love”. But I knew love has nothing to do with it. It was a desire for reciprocation. Consumation. I thought about her 24/7. I constructed a fantasy in which we are the happiest couple ever. Her flaws and problems I ignored. I didn’t really treat or think about her as a “human being” and she started to feel it at some point. I overreacted to anything she said. I got literal panic attacks just because she was TALKING to my best friend in a way I felt was superior to how she talks with me…I wasn’t myself. I had multiple relationships before and never felt something like this. I thought I’m going crazy.

My anxiety started to go up. I started to act out. The fact that she probably was fearful-avoidant and acted more distant and distant fueled that even more. After only 3 months of a relationship I already was doing things like I’ve never thought I’d do: stalking her, controlling her… that’s when the first big raptures started. She was hyper sensitive to that kind of behavior because of her past partners. She started to withdraw. We went into a avoidant-anxious spiral and we ended breaking up.

I have never felt so shaken after break up. I knew it was for good yet I felt like I no longer know how to function in the real world. I never attached to someone so much. Or rather, the idea of someone…

Weeks passed, she reached out and apologized. We started talking about getting back together. But at this point time my CEO brain was already back. Or so I thought. In the end, I decided to silence him once again and we got back together…

As expected, it went and ended the same way, the same amount of time. Except I feel much more heartbroken. And I am still obsessed. My therapist tries to understand why even though she was so not good for me. My friends try too. And all I can think is: limerence.

This comment made me laugh a lot. Accurate.

Oh, there was a definite battle going on with my executive brain vs my limerent brain.
And, I’m half Viking so you can imagine how brutal it was!

I’m happy to report that things are simmering down, thank goodness!
The CEO is starting to earn her pay

Here is the right place to respond, I hope.

@Sammy,

The new messages roll out of the screen so fast that I only saw your above response here 4 days later….

DrL: Nowadays it seems more than 10 new messages are posted everyday in different time tones; could we have 20 latest messages link shown on the screen?

@Sammy,

The new messages roll out of the screen so fast that I only saw your above response here 4 days later….

DrL: Nowadays it seems more than 10 new messages are posted everyday in different time tones; could we have 20 latest messages link shown on the screen?

@Sammy

“Limerence seems to ramp up desire, not necessarily sexual desire, but all desire. Limerence seems to be activating a lot more chemicals in a man’s body/brain than just testosterone.”

I agree that limerence ramp us all sort of desires, one seems to want a new life, a leap to a new height, or a renew in some aspects… that’s my feels, which was unable to be expressed before LwL — such a soul liberating platform.

“(Apparently, everything I wanted to talk about was a “controversial subject”!) I wanted this man’s approval very badly. So, in honour of this man, whom I still feel a great deal of affection for, sometimes I censor myself, or at least “soften” the comments I make.”

Awareness of controversial and contradicting subjects help one ground to look at the world and its reality in much less colored-tinted, biased glasses, it’s a sure sign of maturity. I often felt disappointed when people, men or women, avoid talking about controversial subjects. Chitchat or superficial talks bores my mind to no end, except with LO.

“Sometimes, I feel, tact should triumph over truth. Sometimes, if you really love a person, you let them win the fight.“

My COO believes that discussing or debating about controversial issues would ruin harmony in one’s social life and in society. It is even considered “inferior” or immature if one always wants to “win” in conversations. “Superior” or mature men would let you win all the time without arguing with you at all. An example: two men are sharing drinks and debating a math equation. The 1st says 11+12=23, the 2nd 11+12=24. After one round argument, the first tells the 2nd, “you are right.” While asked why the first would give up his absolute correctness, he says “if I insist, I’d push my friend to the corner of admitting wrong, making him lose face. Then harmony is lost and I’d lose a friend. I know I’m right inside, that’s enough.”

“Yes, I enjoy talking/writing in a “restrained manner”. But, by “restrained manner”, I think I’m referring to “liberal use of irony” and “comedically long-winded ways of avoiding the indelicate”.

As I said before, I really like your way of writing, flowing like a river with “liberal use of irony”, “comedically long-winded ways of avoiding the indelicate” and any kind of bitterness about our individual or collective folliness, mistakes, misfortunes, and tragedies. It’s high literary skills to bring the imperfect world to our hopeful yet vulnearable eyes without too much stinging.
I really enjoy Jane Austen’s work that is full of “irony/subtext” without any bitterness, considering women’s social position in her era!

“I agree with this, but don’t fully understand how the process works. Tennov says that limerence is a “potentially inspirational” state of profound romantic infatuation, so the libido is definitely involved. Limerence is the mental or spiritual side of human sexuality…”

I don’t know how the process works, either; I knew it worked for me to certain level especially the current one, compared to all my previous LE. I think in my case, I was NOT so acutely pining about the unavailable LO’s words or acts in reality (no expectations in the beginning), my mind (heavily traumatized in childhood) just automatically and unawarely created this Phantom and filled him (no longer LO) with all sort of idealized characteristics, which in return gratified and satisfyied my deep desire for an imaginary pair-bonding and CREATIVITY —a part of libido force.

As we discussed before, that initial LE for a fleshy LO changed to a progressed LE for our internal creative self that was always there but sleeping — IT was waken up by an external LO (for this simply fact, I could not stay angry or LC/NC with him long) . Again, “it is our desire, not the desired, we are in love with.”— Nietzsche. I think this is how Tunnov’s “potentially inspirational” limerence manifests in one area. Our profound romantic infatuation instinctually pushes our libido to create beauty of some sorts in our individual life. It’s like a long-term bed-redden patient suddenly eager to get up for outdoor as soon as sensing recovering light shining on them.

“Well, um, thank you for disagreeing with me! Your point of view is refreshing, and actually makes me feel better. My whole life I’ve gone the Apollonian route of “sublimate, sublimate, sublimate” versus the Dionysian model of “eat, drink and make merry!”.”

My previous life in COO is strictly Apollonian, Dionysian model was demonized. It took me years to wake up Dionysus in me and let him stand side by side with Apollo. They both need to harmoniously coexist and balance inside us; it’s totally fine that sometimes one or the other leads and then switch their roles, depending on situatioanl calling.

“Honestly, I think the core neurosis in my personality is my difficulty in fully accepting the naturalness of sexuality. I don’t think this difficulty stems from religious indoctrination. I think this difficulty stems from an inability to believe that I’m attractive to other people, a kind of “fatal false modesty”.”

I have the similar neurosis steamed from COO and my cptsd, which made me believe I had some innate flaws that made me feel awkward and odd in social settings. I wanted to matter in LO’s life, but they neither bothered to openly discuss or debate with me, nor to caringly tell or teach me how I could better myself. I was sincerely curious and eager to learn from their merits and strengths that I lacked.

“In essence, I’m in denial about any potential “animal magnetism” I may hold for other humans, and apparently I possess quite a bit of animal magnetisim. Nor am I talking about just looks, but about the things that people do completely unconsciously with their eyes, mouths, hands, etc. “

I believe the theory that, like all inanimate objects, there is a magnetic field (in physics) in each human being, which attracts, rejects, or keep distance with other human beings. It’s related to one’s libido force, aura, and indescribable personality — your definition of “animal magnetism”. We all have that experience that we are intuitively drawn, repelled by, or at ease with someone when first encounter them. In COO, I was completely ignorant of such “animal magnetism” in me; in the “new” society, I become aware of it and still did not like unwanted attention. It is defined that people w/ cptsd dislike spotlight, which overwhelms their insecure self too much.

However, the recognized “animal magnetism” did not reduce a bit of my neurosis, nor any ex-LOs helped with the condition. Surprisingly, the current LE with its “inspirational” force, helped me a great deal in treating and better my “neurosis” because I have tired to reinvent and renew myself since 4 years before in 2019 after I got that biggest panic attack triggered by one of LO’s perceived “cruel abandoning” deeds. As I mentioned much earlier in LwL, ever since then I launched on researching and studying in philosophy and psychology for self-growth or to impresse LO (unsure if he cared at all, he said the stuff I walked about sometimes was hard to understand). I really did not want to repeatedly suffer from those unknown uncontrollable — cptsd and limerence. I wanted to reprogram my mind and rewire my neurons so I’d be able to control my own state of content and discontent.

“Apparently, I’m a natural flirt, but I’m not even aware that my body is giving off flirtatious signals. As I grow older, I realise I have to integrate attracmadtiveness into my self-concept.”

I was never a flirt, and never knew (still don’t know) how to flirt growing up in COO that sees female flirt only as slut. Even without flirt, I already draw much unwanted attention, so better to bury my head inside books. While not scared, I was naturally, sincerely curious about the world. Last Saturday, this big friendly French Bull dog jumped on me again and again in the street; his owner said, “he does not do this usually, it is your aura….” I had to give him a big pet. If understanding a bit more of males’ eyes nowadays, I still don’t know what dogs or horses see in my eyes or what they sense in my magnetic field.

“I’m in two minds about limerence. On the one hand, I’m glad I went through the experience, and survived. On the other hand, I’d strongly recommend other people stay away from limerence for their own good. “

All of us here have already experienced or are still in limerence; In most cases, it happened to one without being invited. So advice is little of use beforehand, and non-limerent folks won’t even understand your advice at all. Despite my physical and mental sufferings, I still appreciate my current limerence. EVERY COIN HAS TWO SIDES — a universal truth no matter in what culture!

“I’ve been having a lot of flashbacks recently to being a young child at the local shops with my mum. So maybe that is the stage of life any trauma occurred? Maybe I was just really lonely at the point in my life, and starting inventing imaginary friends, and the fantasies become more sophisticated as I continued to mature? I don’t really have anything against my mother other than the fact that she didn’t really mirror me. I think I craved emotional mirroring above all else.”

If you really want to find out how to define what happened and how they shaped the current you, perhaps you could go to an cptsd expert or online sources just for (self)-diagnosis, so your mind could stop wondering and focus on healing and other stuff?

“Hm. What limerence actually felt like for me at times was a constant flow of images and colours and really strong emotions/sensations – not all of them positive. It was like living in a dream or a piece of music or a perpetual rainstorm that never let up. The flow of images and colours and emotions/sensations just never stopped.”

Wow, that sounds really intense! Maybe you want to write a novel or short fiction about your limerence experience, and simultaneously boost your creativity. Your mastery of words could produce a piece of great art!

“Sometimes, this altered state of limerence could be beautiful. Other times, this altered state felt agonising. But I think it’s fair to say it’s very hard to relate in a natural, relaxed way to friends and family while limerent, because one is cut off from the world and stranded inside one’s own head in a landscape that is alternately glorious and nightmarish.”

Totally agree. This site is the only place where I could speak about my “unspeakable” limerence, while feeling increasingly relaxed as time goes by. It also serves as my limerence transference for now, better than another person or new LO.

“During limerence, one does feel like one is on a cosmic quest. One often feels that one is searching for capital-T Truth, climbing some enormous mountain of meaning. It IS a religious experience on so many levels. “

To me, that is a very meaningful, positive side of limerence.

“Then, at last, the forward momentum stops and the whole dream starts coming apart like a ship that’s been shipwrecked. “

You’re changing allegory images here. Without a consistency, a story can confuse you as a writer. Can you stick to possible images of coming down of a mountain?

“Basically, it’s euphoria-tinged impressions that holds the whole beautiful dream together. When the brain stops pumping out dopamine at such high levels, producing euphoria, you wake up.”

If you want to use dreams as metaphor, then we have to stick to dream qualities. Who could dream logically and realistically? However, limerence is daydream and fantasy, in which one’s mind still has some control as a screen writer, director, actors, and side roles…. That’s what happened with my fantasies — giving the Phantom my desired, idealized father role (much later a lover’s role), writing out his scripts, delivering his words and my lines of interacting with each other…. The amazing part of it is that my mind automatically did it with little difficult of contrivance, which I really believe stemmed from my extremely loneliness locked up in that weekcare for 2 years from 4-6. Emotionally ignored or abandoned children would only daydream rose petals and lollipops in order to erase or replace all memories of their pains.

“I’m more grounded in reality now, more aware of other people’s reactions and feelings and motives. My judgement isn’t clouded by ecstasy nor impaired by despair. “

I’m so happy for you and congratulations! To reach such a state is a huge victory after battling with so much unspeakable and undefinable pains of limerence. I still have some work to do in terms of judgment towards this LO, who still brings me dopamine fix and annoying pains — my semi-Buddhism and mediation are helping me manage them.. . The ideal Phantom inside me has quieted down a lot, since I have this venue to express my muddled thoughts and emotions.

Only if his name is “Sammy”. I’m working on falling in love with myself.

Interesting enough, this last LE is reducing a lot of my neurosis and making myself love myself much better than before LE. I guess some of my positive “Self” has been waken up by this both exhilarating and excruciating experience — contradiction inevitably produces changes!

I’ll respond your latest message later in the Coffee House.

“Hey, Sammy. You may want to read this if you haven’t already …”

@Dr. L.

Thanks for the link. Testosterone plays multiple roles in the human body and “isn’t a volume control for libido.” Ah, got it. 🙂

Hey, Sammy. You may want to read this if you haven’t already:

https://livingwithlimerence.com/testosterone-and-limerence/

@Snowphoenix.

Okay. Well, let’s see if I can address a few of the many excellent points you raise, since I might learn something too in the process! 🤔

First, in response to Frederico’s comment, I wasn’t throwing testosterone randomly into the mix. The reason I brought testosterone up is that testosterone, in popular imagination, is linked to male sex drive. So in theory a man’s testosterone levels should correspond closely to a man’s reported level of desire.

Limerence seems to ramp up desire, not necessarily sexual desire, but all desire. Limerence seems to be activating a lot more chemicals in a man’s body/brain than just testosterone. I have talked to a few (gay) men who mysteriously have high sex drives and low testosterone. Something else in the brain seems to be activating desire. Question: is “libido” more than the sum of one’s sex drive?

“I never thought of arguing as a sport but truth seeking, as if absolute truths exist; so never thought frank arguing could “offend” people — it’s not about their personality or related to my affection for them. If I were not close to the other side or felt distrustful, I would not bother to argue with that person at all! I saw such kind of substantial conversation as a form of affection bonding, portrayed in male-bonding in literature or films.”

One of my male LOs didn’t like arguing and didn’t like talking about “controversial subjects”. (Apparently, everything I wanted to talk about was a “controversial subject”!) I wanted this man’s approval very badly. So, in honour of this man, whom I still feel a great deal of affection for, sometimes I censor myself, or at least “soften” the comments I make.

Sometimes, I feel, tact should triumph over truth. Sometimes, if you really love a person, you let them win the fight. Honestly, I wish I let this man win every intellectual debate we have, and we had a lot of intellectual debates, mostly at my instigation. (Now who’s the big softie?) 😉

“In writing, I prefer speak in a quite “restrained manner”, because I think chosen words could carry their own connotations, or convey subtle, deeper meanings, or arouse a bit of reader’s imagination. It’s kind of like playing a word game. That’s what I look for in reading others’ writing.”

Yes, I enjoy talking/writing in a “restrained manner”. But, by “restrained manner”, I think I’m referring to “liberal use of irony” and “comedically long-winded ways of avoiding the indelicate”. I think one of the chief joys of Jane Austen films, books, etc, is the “restrained” dialogue between characters i.e. lots of irony/subtext. Middle-class snobbery at its best and most entertaining! 😆

“Libido is not simply physical, but overall creative forces insdie each of us. It could create wonder after being awakened and inspired by a “high valued” LO, even if unrequited.”

I agree with this, but don’t fully understand how the process works. Tennov says that limerence is a “potentially inspirational” state of profound romantic infatuation, so the libido is definitely involved. Limerence is the mental or spiritual side of human sexuality…

“Aha! I would not use word “the worst” of our “animal instincts” to describe our sexual drive. Besides its reproductive value, it does bring us pleasure, promote physical and mental health, and inspire other creative drives inside us. Think of all forms of arts and beautiful creations in the material world!”

Well, um, thank you for disagreeing with me! Your point of view is refreshing, and actually makes me feel better. My whole life I’ve gone the Apollonian route of “sublimate, sublimate, sublimate” versus the Dionysian model of “eat, drink and make merry!”.

Honestly, I think the core neurosis in my personality is my difficulty in fully accepting the naturalness of sexuality. I don’t think this difficulty stems from religious indoctrination. I think this difficulty stems from an inability to believe that I’m attractive to other people, a kind of “fatal false modesty”.

In essence, I’m in denial about any potential “animal magnetism” I may hold for other humans, and apparently I possess quite a bit of animal magnetisim. Nor am I talking about just looks, but about the things that people do completely unconsciously with their eyes, mouths, hands, etc. Apparently, I’m a natural flirt, but I’m not even aware that my body is giving off flirtatious signals. As I grow older, I realise I have to integrate attractiveness into my self-concept.

“Without that glimmer, I could be with anyone naturally and comfortably, open to befriend or platonically bond. Now, I want to reach a post-limerence state, and am still wondering how I would feel without that pre-limerence usual fridgerator-buzz depression or boredom. I’ve been definitely “renewed” during this lengthy, delusional, awakening, painful, and renovating LE.”

I’m in two minds about limerence. On the one hand, I’m glad I went through the experience, and survived. On the other hand, I’d strongly recommend other people stay away from limerence for their own good. So I don’t know what’s going on… Protective big brother instincts perhaps? 🙄

“My childhood was sadly impacted with traumas of various kinds, and I forget or repressed a lot of horrifying incidences or ordinary events but often remembered my emotions and thoughts, even at the age of 4.”

I’ve been having a lot of flashbacks recently to being a young child at the local shops with my mum. So maybe that is the stage of life any trauma occurred? Maybe I was just really lonely at the point in my life, and starting inventing imaginary friends, and the fantasies become more sophisticated as I continued to mature? I don’t really have anything against my mother other than the fact that she didn’t really mirror me. I think I craved emotional mirroring above all else.

“You’ve so vividly captured the mental and emotional state of limerence, at least in me — “under siege” “in a metaphorical war zone” at daily or even hourly basis; every thought or emotion could be a life-altering force….”

Hm. What limerence actually felt like for me at times was a constant flow of images and colours and really strong emotions/sensations – not all of them positive. It was like living in a dream or a piece of music or a perpetual rainstorm that never let up. The flow of images and colours and emotions/sensations just never stopped.

Sometimes, this altered state of limerence could be beautiful. Other times, this altered state felt agonising. But I think it’s fair to say it’s very hard to relate in a natural, relaxed way to friends and family while limerent, because one is cut off from the world and stranded inside one’s own head in a landscape that is alternately glorious and nightmarish.

During limerence, one does feel like one is on a cosmic quest. One often feels that one is searching for capital-T Truth, climbing some enormous mountain of meaning. It IS a religious experience on so many levels. Then, at last, the forward momentum stops and the whole dream starts coming apart like a ship that’s been shipwrecked. Basically, it’s euphoria-tinged impressions that holds the whole beautiful dream together. When the brain stops pumping out dopamine at such high levels, producing euphoria, you wake up.

“We all know what limerent’s eyes 👀 are like during limerence…. *sigh*… My eyes are cleared tremendously after coming to LwL, but has it become easier to exit painful limerence? Obvious not.”

Since recovering from limerence, I can now pick up on “sexual tension” (that heavy feeling in the air) between me and other people when there’s mutual physical attraction. I could never pick up on/identify this feeling before. I don’t know what criteria I was using to pick LOs. Probably a combination of good looks, kind gestures, and a chemical rush in the brain. I’m more grounded in reality now, more aware of other people’s reactions and feelings and motives. My judgement isn’t clouded by ecstasy nor impaired by despair. 🤔

“I bet that at age of 60 if available, you’ll still going to limerent for some gorgeous male; wanna take the bet?”

Only if his name is “Sammy”. I’m working on falling in love with myself. 😉