Very well said, Sammy!

I agree that limerence is just an altered state of mind. It is a thought and a feeling. It is not an action.

The limerent chooses how to respond. The limerent CAN behave ethically even though they are overwhelmed with intense emotions. I think Adam is a good example of a limerent who behaved ethically (I know Adam would disagree because it has been a difficult journey, but I think he chose the high road). Some limerents try to behave ethically and still find themselves in a tricky situation like Lost in Space. Some limerents give in to temptation and regret it and try to do better like C is for Cat. Then we have the unrepentant limerents that justify their inappropriate behavior. I don’t want to call out anyone from our community so I will use Jay’s wife as an example. I struggle with patience for the last group. They trigger disgust in me. Interestingly, we learn from all of them. All of us started from the same place: an altered mental state. Then we discovered who we are by the way we managed our limerence. I don’t think limerence itself is bad, I think it can be handled poorly or it can be handled well. I don’t know LN’s full story, but I have been under the impression that she tries to manage her limerence ethically. Admittedly, I haven’t read all of her posts. The posts I’ve read were kind and helpful. She seems to be the type of person who is trying to do the right things. I hope she and her SO become closer as they navigate her limerence.

I’m sad that you’ve felt bullied on LwL, Sammy. I hope I wasn’t the bully. I’m sorry if I was, and I like to know specifically what I said so that I can apologize for it and try to see it from your perspective. I don’t want to be a bully. If it’s me, I’d like to do better going forward.

@LN.

I’m glad you are okay. Limerence is involuntary – it’s something that happens to a person without their choosing. The intrusive thoughts start to come unbidden, etc. The mood swings are very debilitating.

On the one hand, I don’t think spouses should take things too personally. Limerence in no way reflects on SO. I don’t think limerents always devalue their SOs or rewrite history. I don’t believe limerents always act on their limerence. (I didn’t act on my limerence because my LO was an unobtainable god in my eyes). On the other hand, it’s understandable if spouses feel hurt about not necessarily being the person the limerent is dreaming about. etc.

LN, you strike me as a wonderfully warm person with a good sense of humour. I’m sure you’re not leaving over wordplay. Truly, I think wordplay on LwL is one of the least problematic aspects. People resort to wordplay when they don’t want to talk about heavy stuff. Wordplay is a bit of a reprieve from all the intensity/heavy stuff.

My play on words here was simply done to help Frederico feel included. It had nothing to do with you. My previous plays on words were done to show Marcia I understand where she’s coming from somewhat – as much as any man can understand where any woman is coming from. It again had nothing to do with you. 🙂

All humour on my part is done with empathy in mind. It’s never an encouragement for people to act against their own moral standards. I think human beings are perfectly capable of holding two thoughts in their mind at once – acknowledgement of desire and reluctance to act on desire. Humour can often very effectively capture that tension that exists between these two poles. Dr. L. has plenty of slightly nerdy INFJ-style humour in his posts/picture captions.

I have only experienced what I call real limerence once. My LO and I were both single, though he eventually partnered. And the barriers were caused by my LO’s own enigmatic personality – or, rather, by my failure to understand my LO’s own enigmatic personality. In reality, there was no love triangles and no romantic rivals. There was just one random human being with a hard-to-read personality.

I have experienced some attractions later in life. But these attractions were more or less mutual, so the desire quickly faded on both sides. Without uncertainty, limerence can’t build into something obsessive and all-consuming. In other words, I’ve only had one attraction in my life that caused me immense suffering.

I don’t think crushes alone are limerence. I don’t think seeking or receiving validation from the same/opposite sex is limerence. I realise that married people benefit from boundaries around things such as flirting. On the other hand, no marriage thrives without trust and a degree of freedom and privacy for both spouses.

If I had a SO who was limerent, I would be less worried about the risk of infidelity than I would be worried about SO’s declining mental health. Poor mental health would alert me to my SO’s frame of mind. I would like my SO to talk to me about their frame of mind.

I don’t think there are thought police/morality police at LwL – apart from occasional members of the public who post one or two nasty asides and then disappear. If people can’t discuss limerence, then how can they come to terms with the complex emotions they are experiencing? But, also, there must be a way of talking about limerence that shows the right amount of tact and nuance. There must be a way to talk about limerence without enabling it.

I have a lot of problems with some people’s posts, because some people consistently approach limerence from a dishonest angle. These posters paint themselves as victims, and all other humans (who don’t instantly and rapturously validate their limerence) as persecutors. These posters want to pretend that marriage is some kind of cage/prison. And if it wasn’t for societal prejudice, limerent and LO could be together. Of course, none of the above is true.

In most cases, the LO isn’t with the limerent because LO doesn’t want to be with the limerent, period. By shifting blame onto society, some limerents can remain in denial about the fact LO doesn’t want them on any level, and the latter is simply indulging in embarrassing delusions. Worse, these posters persist in falsely accusing random people on the Internet – people they don’t even know and will never know – of somehow persecuting them, or being romantic rivals.

I can’t comprehend people who seem to want to force others to validate their limerence in some mysterious way. What’s the point? How does validation from others make an LE any more or less real? Limerence is limerence. If one is in limerence, one is in limerence. If one isn’t in limerence, one isn’t in limerence. Validation from others isn’t going to make one whit of difference to the altered state.

Limerence doesn’t mean the LO reciprocates. Limerence doesn’t mean the limerent is entitled to a sexual/romantic relationship with LO. Limerence means nothing except the limerent is experiencing an altered state, with some interesting side-effects such as bumped-up libido and intrusive thoughts. Being in an altered state isn’t intrinsically wrong. However, because of hormonal fluctuations, the altered state can be stressful. And the altered state can make one feel very sensitive to real/perceived signs of rejection from LO.

During my time at LwL, I have felt bullied. Ironically, I haven’t felt bullied by random members of the public who occasionally post nasty asides – random members of the public are entitled to their opinions. I have felt bullied, however, by fellow limerents who have treated me as if I had some kind of vendetta against them simply because I adopt a completely neutral stance toward their limerent episodes, as if complete neutrality were a crime. Absurd! From what I’ve observed, limerents are oftentimes so desperate for their feelings to be validated they unintentionally behave like bullies themselves.

Sending you love and warm wishes, LN. As a fellow INFJ, I think you will be able to understand my comment, as you’ve been able to understand my comments in the past. Limerents are often good people. But limerence can draw out something ugly in otherwise good people. And yes, as you suspect, it’s all to do with hormones going cray-cray. 🙂

LN, appreciate your words. I’m very sensitive (too much), so I really do understand. please don’t leave lwl on a couple of off-target comments. I’m absolutely sure they are not connected to you at all and I see much support for you and your situation.
If the time is right for you to not come back thats ok.
I hope that will come for me too at some point, as it will mean Ive moved on from my limerence.
In the meantime….here I am.
Best wishes

Yes, indeed, LN. If my aside caused you offence, then please accept my apologies. It was perhaps not very well judged. I too wish you all the best.

Hi LN,

please don’t be hurt by the fooling around with words, it‘s got nothing to do with you at all, really!
On the contrary, we are all glad that you are back to tell us that not everything has blown up and that you are working on it, it sounded so worrying in the beginning.
It could be the way out of the ever-spiraling limerence stuff!

I wish you and your SO the very best, if you decide to leave the site (I try not to be too active here too since I sometimes feel it’s pulling me back)! It’s your decision, but feel free to post any time, we will be glad to hear from you!

LN, If you are referring to the side-track jokes – please know that they are in no way connected to your situation, and I am sure no one meant any disrespect. After posting my comment I realized that I should have added a disclaimer that it was only related to f’s play on words, and to nothing else. I apologize regardless for the poor timing.

I hope you are able to work through this together with your SO. It sounds like you are already on the right path!

Thanks, IMHO, I appreciate it. I had to delete the other comme ts because I didn’t know how he’d react if he found them. But I think in light of some of the other comments recently, I’ll be done with this site from now on. Take care, and thanks for the kindness you and others have shown 😊

I think its worse when they are pulled down shorty before church. Or at least that’s been my experience.

“I haven’t had much to update but I’m glad I came back, just for this 😂😂”

@Trifles.

Frederico says: “I once had them pulled down shortly after going to church but it was a very long time ago…”

I’m starting to think Mr Frederico has a few verbal tricks hidden up his right sleeve. He probably has a few “mere trifles” hidden up his right sleeve, too. Just don’t shake him too hard after hugging him hello – two birthday cards might fall out of his left sleeve. 😉

I can think of another joke involving “mere trifles” and whatever Mr Frederico had pulled down, however, I can’t tell it, as the taste level isn’t congruent with the taste level I like to see maintained at LwL. If I told the joke in question, I would have to send myself into permanent exile. Self-control is the price one pays for liberty. 😇

I haven’t had much to update but I’m glad I came back, just for this 😂😂