1) Husband/fiance/partner finds out…may not be happy with the woman or indeed the side- unwitting maybe- chap!!

2) Side chap may find out that the woman who is seemingly in an Open Relationship, is in fact has a fiance or husband!

While that is compatible with marriage in theory, the game names, photos that don’t reverse image search make me wonder!! Side chap wouldn’t be too happy.

What about women on certain Dating sites, for example Seeking Arrangement?

I have noticed some who claim to be in Open Relationships who may well in fact be engaged, married or otherwise spoken for.

Is this affairs, is this e.g. an “Open Relationship” albeit without the consent of the husband- or even the knowledge! I notice they tend to have fake names, pictures that don’t link etc.

Your observations were a fun read, Sammy!

“I’m looking for evidence that I am desired.”

As a hetrosexual woman, I can confirm this (at least for me). My limerence has shown me what my Achilles heel is. It is precisely this. And I realize how vulnerable it makes me, and how I don’t want ANY person, man, woman, child, or dog (yes, dogs are persons in my book) to have that sort of power over me. The only solution I can think of is to be desirable in my *own* eyes. If I am sure of it, I won’t need evidence of it from any external source. Especially not some LO behaving irrationally!

> Stereotypically, I’d say men have affairs opportunistically and women have affairs strategically. I.e. men have affairs because they can and women have affairs because she wants to upgrade. However, this stereotype assumes women are smarter than men, and nature’s greatest manipulators.

No, from an evolutionary biology standpoint both approaches make a lot of sense: For men, an affair is a smart opportunity to pass on his genes without having to do the work. For women, it would make sense either if she’d get better genes for her offspring but have her partner raise the kid or if she’d be willing to leave.

But luckily, there’s more to human behavior that just this.

I agree, and I’d add that assuming other people will mostly think, act and feel like yourself can be a much more inaccurate superstition that internalizing useful stereotypes or study results like this.

As a teenager, first I wondered how everyone else seems to be finding a romantic partner with relative ease. Well, it’s easier if you don’t need the glimmer to get interested in the first place.

Then I wondered how everyone else was behaving so normal when they were „in love” with someone, having experienced a fully blown LE and assuming it’s like that for everyone.

Similar to Dr L, I’d probably say no to a woman asking for casual sex even if I was single. Not that I wouldn’t fancy the idea, but while I’ve ended up in bed with a woman I just met on a night out a few times, I’ve learned that it simply doesn’t work for me. I’m much more like the stereotypical woman and I need emotional bonding and trust in order to get intimate.

I find the MBTI stereotypes especially useful since they tend to be accurately descriptive. All of my longer term relationships with women and most of my closer long term friendships were along the „NF” axis.

And no, that guy you’ve met and talked with for a few times most likely isn’t developing mutual limerence for you – he’s just looking for casual sex.

Speaking from my own perspective as a gay man, I am happy to report that in my opinion neither sex has a monopoly on “irrationality”. That is to say, I think both men and women project all sorts of weird notions on each other. 😉

Speaking as a limerence-prone gay male, I’m not actually looking for sex in my interactions with other males. What am I looking for then? I think I’m looking for evidence that I am desired. I.e. I don’t see myself as a “sex object” so much as a “love object”. Tell me I have pretty hair, or great taste in shoes, or whatever. 😆

I believe many heterosexual women have a similar psychology to me. However, my psychology ironically puts me at odds with most other gay men, who are very much overtly and unapologetically “on the prowl”. Emotionally, I’m kind of on the same page as straight women in general, and I feel straight women in general do embrace more cautious, conservative ideals regarding sex than men. (Or, at least, in public, straight women embrace more conservative ideals regarding sex).

Yes, absolutely, some of women’s cautious attitude to sex would originate from concerns about physical safety, fear of disease, and investment in one’s own social status/reputation. Women have practical reasons to be wary of sex. Women also have complex emotional reasons to be wary of sex – complex emotional reasons which include wanting to land the best partner possible and pour the bulk of her emotional resources into a relationship with him. Last but not least, a woman may have moral and/or religious values that shape her views on sex.

However, women do flirt with men they wish neither to wed or to bed. I think if the average heterosexual woman flirts with a man, it’s not because she wants to have sex with him, but because she wants to feel desired. Maybe she wants to be desired by that one specific man. More likely than not, she just wants to be desired/feel appreciated in general. Men have egos. Women have egos too. And, yes, maybe that’s terribly confusing and unfair on dudes. Not to mention frustrating if the guy in question really likes the girl in question. 🤔

As a gay man, I have thankfully never interpreted a woman’s “friendliness” as sexual interest. I have, however, unwittingly committed the opposite sin – I have dismissed a woman’s sexual interest (or, more accurately, a woman’s interest in starting a committed romantic relationship with me) as mere “friendliness”.

I had an interesting experience once that illustrates the kind of comic misunderstandings that arise between straight women and gay men. I was sitting in a crowded cafe, all the tables taken, and it was raining outside. Two women walked into the cafe. They were then going to leave the cafe immediately because no tables were free. However, I overheard the women’s conversation and offered them a place at my table – purely out of a desire to “be a gentleman”/old-fashioned good manners. (My mother raised me right, doggone it). 😆

The women debated the matter between themselves. Should they accept my offer or not? One woman was reluctant, while her friend was very keen. The will of the less reluctant female prevailed. However, the women let me know, in no uncertain terms, while accepting my offer, that they were both in relationships!!

The women and I ended up sitting at opposite ends of the table – as far away from each other as humanly possible. The women seemed terrified that I was only being nice to them because I was some young stud looking to chat up random skirt. It was apparently inconceivable to these women that a well-spoken, nice-looking man would be nice to them for no reason. Also, it was apparently inconceivable to these two women that I was gay, and I was not about to enlighten them otherwise. I found their heterosexist assumptions about me highly amusing. 😉

I got the impression that the women were reluctant to share a table with me, not because I was inherently offensive or undesirable in any way, nor because I was utterly irresistible, but because they both feared judgement – the judgement of other women in their extended social circle who might accidentally walk into the cafe and see them supposedly “socialising” with an unidentified male. Who knows?

Let’s frame the whole situation another way. I saw these two women only as fellow humans who needed a place to sit down. I viewed them through a neutral lens. Nothing romantic was taking place, in other words. The women’s reaction to me, however, forced me to see them as sexual beings. I did not objectify these women. These women objectified themselves. Consequently, they believed that i was seeing THEM through an erotically-charged heterosexual male gaze. 😆

I don’t really socialise a lot with single straight people. I don’t have the time.
However, the impression I get is that young attractive women must get an INCREDIBLE amount of attention from interested and possibly somewhat-desperate guys, which makes them (the excessively-pursued females) understandably abrupt and angry and paranoid. I overheard one young lady scream at a young man in my town that: “You don’t just walk up to a girl in the street and ask her if she has a boyfriend!”

Some males try to be friends with a female, because they hope the friendship will turn into someone more once the girl trusts them. This tactic often backfires, despite the fact some females are indeed demisexual and need to get to know a guy over a long period of time/exposure. The guy is “friend-zoned” by his own actions and then resents the girl for supposedly putting him in that situation.

Females, on the other hand, are annoying in their dealings with the opposite sex because they often won’t explicitly tell a guy when they really, really like him. Women apparently expect men to be mind-readers. Or they send their female friends to do the dirty work for them of accessing the man’s potential interest. The guy then might feel social pressure to pursue a girl he doesn’t really like…

Stereotypically, I’d say men have affairs opportunistically and women have affairs strategically. I.e. men have affairs because they can and women have affairs because she wants to upgrade. However, this stereotype assumes women are smarter than men, and nature’s greatest manipulators. I’m not sure if every woman on earth organises her day around devastatingly brilliant manipulation of the opposite sex. Nor is every woman alive a diehard social climber. 😆

Men are often stereotyped as being these cold, emotionless, predatory, and just plain horrible creatures when it comes to sex. And I’m sure there are some younger, emotionally immature males who are quite callous in the way they treat girls. However, if we’re talking about men who are older and more mature, I think most men develop strong (albeit unconscious) feelings for any sexual partner.

I.e. even men who conspicuously pursue “casual sex” and revel in their supposed “freedom” from social norms eventually want to pursue causal sex with the same woman – over and over and over again. Men want comfort and familiarity and intimacy as well as danger and pleasure and excitement. Men (past a certain age) are basically great big teddy bears concerning sex in my experience. Women (especially women past a certain age) are the adventurous ones/tigresses. Women over 40 probably don’t want to be protected from cads and rakes. Women over 40 probably want to know where they can go to meet cads and rakes!! 😉

If sex breaks down between men and women in committed relationships, I believe this is because women actually have very vivid sexual imaginations, and men don’t do enough to stoke the fires of the female erotic imagination. Even in marriage, sex needs to remain a fun consensual game of inspiring desire and curiosity in the other. 😉

Just some of my wry observations on human beings from the sidelines of real life!! 😎

“As you know Marcia, my ideal would be to have a second man of equal priority to the first that I love just as much.”
I don’t think it’s possible if you already have an SO. And if you have children. You have too many other priorities. If you had to pick, you’d pick your SO I’m assuming. And the life you already have. That tells you everything.

“I have no interest in being the entertainment”
That is a harsh take on what I am saying 🙂
As you know Marcia, my ideal would be to have a second man of equal priority to the first that I love just as much. He certainly wouldn’t be my “entertainment”.

Tbh, as a single person, this kind of answer makes me want to run for the hills any time a married man or partnered man so much as says hello to me. I never want to become limerent for a taken dude again. I just want to say, “Thank you. Drive through.” 🙂
If my last (married) LO ever thought of us getting together, he was probably thinking what you are, and I have no interest in being the entertainment. Taken people just don’t have anything to offer a single person. Unless they are looking for entertainment as well. However, if there were real feelings involved (and you mentioned the word love), I can’t see it as being anything but a train wreck.
Unless you found a married man or partnered man who was ok being a priority below your spouse, kids, extended family, job, etc. And was ok with your limited time.