Do we ever, or do we often make corrective attachments? I find for me, I may have not connected as deeply with my mother as I might have with another stronger, more feminine, more intellectual, more fully-formed woman. I might not have totally trusted her as a caregiver. Not early-early – I remember resting my head on her bathrobed shoulder and feeling loved then, and I have fortunately felt loved my whole life, but adolescense, perhaps. I think in that era I felt some disconnect that sent me to the altar of all women who were beautiful, strong, fashionable, intelligent. Soon after, my life as a crusher would begin. I feel there must be something in there…

Bonjour, French Lady,
I could have written a lot of your post myself.
I have the same physical type as you, though not necessarily intellectual and introverted. More impish, flirtatious and inappropriate. 🙂 The problem with not overly masculine behavior is … over time I have a tendency to get frustrated with the passivity, like I am doing everything.
I have been reading that it’s better to pick someone you have a medium-level attraction to. You can actually see them clearly but are still attracted. It feels like the “healthy alternatives” aisle in the grocery store to me. You don’t need potatoes. Eat mashed cauliflower! 🙂
“In my opinion, some romance should be there, otherwise why not just get together with a friend and skip all the rest of the beginning of a relationship the sex, excitement, longing etc. As these will inevitably fade”
But doesn’t all the excitement fade, no matter how it starts? A friendship with sex is where it ends up in the end. And that’s if you are lucky and even like the person once the excitement fades. All that luscious sexual tension .. gone. 🙁

Hello Marcia,
What a sense of humour !! Fully agree . I only am attracted to men with certain physical and personnality traits. Basically, very slim , intellectual , introverts, with a full head of hair and not overtly masculine behaviour . Even fully knowing that the long term compatibility might not be there , these are the only types that I find emotionally and physically attractive and I cannot get involved on a physical level , if I don’t have that type of attraction. Basically an all or nothing situation.

Unless it’s a cookie, looks and smells like a cookie , I will not try start a relationship. My type of cookie brand, are also few and far between, so I am mainly on a no food diet! I am either anxiously attached to them or totally avoidant.
Knowing yourself and being able or wanting to rewire are 2 different things.
I did not like the video, makes choosing a mate sound more like choosing a suitable job, and who wants to sleep with their job ?

In my opinion, some romance should be there, otherwise why not just get together with a friend and skip all the rest of the beginning of a relationship the sex, excitement, longing etc. As these will inevitably fade

God help us all!

The brunette nearly has a full house, if her name was **** I would be deploying the anti-limerence measures🙈

But seriously:
Thomas says

But… This is partly where the understanding of limerence has been very helpful. Especially this site and this community. Because I’ve found it very empowering to see that whatever the differences between us, there seems to be a shared process at work, and THAT can be nipped in the bud.

Well observed, more power too you!

Sammy,

You’re on a roll!

Check this out: https://thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2022/01/when-youre-ready-this-is-how-you-heal/

Song of the Day: “Blue Skies” – Ella Fitzgerald (1958)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB-xqDZbEVQ

@Sammy

I don’t know, the church I attend is very open and affirming. I would think these institutions would have to be if they want to stay relevant and attract younger members, and hahaha if you think 39 is old wait til you’re 55.

“But a part of me would really like to have genuinely platonic friendships with other men of whatever orientation. This is mostly intellectual curiosity on my part. I want to “see” human males without the romantic haze of limerence getting in the way, and distorting my perceptions. I want to see the world as objectively as possible, and I think the dream of romantic love or of finding romantic love can get in the way of that.”

I’m at the point in my life where I’m not looking for romantic love so platonic relationships with both sexes are really what sustain me now. It is quite liberating when you can give up the notion of romantic love in the limerent sense. That or maybe I’m just getting older and want to focus on other things that make me happy and bring me joy.

Who doesn’t like chocolate?😋

@carried away

Thank you for your kind sentiments. You know, in my ghastly old age, I can actually see both sides of the debate. I can understand why a religious institution wants to enact rules to retain its essential religious character, otherwise what’s the point of identifying as a religious institution in the first place? On the other hand, I can understand the hurt and anger felt by students who feel alienated from their social/educational milieu, and misunderstood by key adult figures in their life. 🤔

I’m actually 39, so it’s a long, long time since I attended high school. And most of the ghosts of the past have been well and truly laid to rest. But it took a long time to find something resembling “inner peace”. 🤔

I am utterly fascinated by my own sexuality, because it seems impossible to pin down or categorise. As a teenager, I did have a few genuine “ecstatic moments” with girls i.e. when the girl in question appeared to reciprocate my attraction to her in full. However, at least one seemingly straight, possibly bisexual male dragged me into a limerent episode that went on for years and years. (What was going on in his mind? The truthful answer: probably nothing). 🤣

Why did a male and not a female trigger such a troublesome limerent episode for me? Am I more attracted to boys than to girls in general? Did this particular limerent episode constitute some final word on my sexual orientation? Or is it just that I encounter really straightforward, honest girls who don’t play mind games and really crazy, unpredictable boys who do play mind games? Hahaha!

Or – here’s another thought – do I just have “unhealed wounds” in my life/soul regarding males and the same issues don’t crop up with females because I don’t have degree of emotional woundedness regarding females? Does it just come down to what kind of wounds I carry around with me? 😉

I’m not in any way homophobic. I don’t want to change myself into some kind of socially-acceptable male. But a part of me would really like to have genuinely platonic friendships with other men of whatever orientation. This is mostly intellectual curiosity on my part. I want to “see” human males without the romantic haze of limerence getting in the way, and distorting my perceptions. I want to see the world as objectively as possible, and I think the dream of romantic love or of finding romantic love can get in the way of that.

There were times in my late 20s when I preferred to interact with women (platonically) rather than men in social settings, given the choice, because I knew at that stage in my life no woman was going to make me feel super-nervous. That is to say, at that point in my life, interacting with males was intensely stressful and intensely pleasurable, whereas interacting with women was mostly soothing.

Sometimes it was easier to avoid men altogether. Sometimes it was easier to forgo both the heightened stress and the heightened pleasure. Women at that stage in my life didn’t make me high. But nor did they stress me out by their mere presence and conversation. Women weren’t glimmering at me, in other words. (If you flip these observations, you’ll understand what a young straight man feels around females when hormones are racing through his body). 😉

I did have a chance to date a girl back in high school. She may have even been briefly limerent for me. I think her fatal error was she didn’t buy me chocolate. 😉 I brought her chocolate, which she gladly accepted and ate, but she didn’t buy me any chocolate in return. I thought to myself: “This young lady isn’t paying attention. Clearly, she’s not that into me – I see no offerings of chocolate.” 😆

I think my obsession with chocolate as a teenager, which I no longer have by the way, was/is an autistic foible. For a long time, romantic love and chocolate were intertwined in my brain. I expected a would-be romantic partner to buy me things. Jewellery is nice, yeah? I wouldn’t say no to a diamond bracelet. But given a choice between jewellery and chocolate, I’ll always take the chocolate. 😉

As you can see, I’m delightfully non-materialistic. 😇

Oh, and in my 20s I went on plenty of dates with males. I always bombed out on such dates, though, because I proved more interested in the food than in the person sitting across from me. Maybe I don’t need to date a human being? Maybe I need to date a chain of restaurants? Or maybe I’m just really into my nosh? 😛

@Sammy

I’m sorry to hear about your high school. It doesn’t seem possible to discriminate these days with the younger generation being so fluid, but maybe that’s just me. I’m a heterosexual female, but sexually I feel fluid. I’ve had sex with women, maybe that makes me bisexual, but I’ve only ever been limerent for the opposite sex. My point is you can’t really label someone, it puts you in a box, and believe me no one wants to be in a box.

@Thomas.

Guess what, mate? You’ve helped me put two and two together!! What’s being passed down in my family on the Y chromosome from generation to generation, and most noticeably from every eldest son to his eldest son, I think is the genetic foundation for autism…

Autistic genes, which might not manifest as actual diagnosable autism, would probably explain why the males in my family seem “softer” than other men, why my dad is so “soft”, why I’m so “soft”, etc, etc. Would also explain why the males in my family get along so well with each other (strong inter-generational bonding) and why there’s so little of the overt aggression that characterises the males in other people’s families… Might explain my rosy-coloured view of men in general. (I’m lovely; therefore, all men must be lovely). 😉

The women in my family don’t seem to inherit this collection of genetic traits, so that’s why I think it’s being passed down on the Y chromosome. It’s a genetic trait linked to biological maleness.

To tell you the truth, I have always been insanely popular socially, despite the fact I’m an introvert of the most retiring kind and have never sought out attention. (I ran away from people as a kid and hide in the bushes until my mother’s surprise guests/visitors went home). Nonetheless, despite my innate shyness, I’m a people magnet. I think people are captivated by my “latent autism”. 🤔

At last I know why straight men are so nice to me and often go out of their way to be kind to me! They’re not hitting on me. They’re not attracted to my sexuality, which is invisible to the untrained eye, and largely irrelevant to them. They’re not attracted to my “femininity”, which is more likely than not a figment of my imagination. It’s always been my subtle aura of autism that draws people in!!

I think I finally understand why I’ve always felt like an outsider!! And yet an outsider who is very much loved by so-called insiders!! A popular man who can’t understand why he’s popular. 😲

Straight men love me. Straight women love me. Gay men love me. Lesbian love me. It all makes sense… I’m different in a good way.

In high school, girls used to come up to me and touch my hair without permission, because my hair felt so soft, softer than the hair of actual females. Straight men often touch me in a non-sexual way when I’m out and about. I think they want to reassure me, or re-orient me to reality. I tend to walk around looking a bit lost. 🤣

Gay men tell me I have “a face like a guinea pig” and “dress like a farmer”. It’s all coming together in my mind. People respond to me the way they do because they subconsciously register my autism. People like me, but they don’t understand why they like me. They do understand, however, I’m actually LESS threatening on an purely energetic level than the average male my age. I have “non-confrontational energy”. My male LO never had any sinister reason for befriending me. He truly liked me for me. I’ve been torturing myself with guilt and shame for years completely unnecessarily…

Also, autistic genes might explain why I’m prone to limerence in the first place, if limerence is in part about unmet needs. It’s hard for a father with autistic traits to meet the emotional needs of his spouse and children. It’s hard to a son with autistic traits to ask for any of those needs to be met by his father, let alone by his autistic father.

In light of this new knowledge/understanding, I feel completely absolved of blame. I realise I’m not an intrinsically bad person, and shame/guilt is an inappropriate response to my past struggles. 😛

My relationship with my dad improves out of sight when I stop seeing him through a “neurotypical filter” and start seeing him through an “autistic filter”, as a fellow autist. There’s common ground between us suddenly. It’s like: “Oh, he struggles to fit in, too! He’s not being arrogant and withholding. He’s autistic. He’s on the spectrum just like I am. We are like two peas in a pod.” 😉

@Limerent Emeritus.

“Is your father still around?”

Yup, my dad is still around. Actually, I live with him full-time and we get along great. However, when I was mid-20s, struggling with limerence and its immediate aftermath, I was consumed by something that felt almost like pure hatred for my father. I think subconsciously I blamed him for the emotional pain I was in. And I compared my father extremely unfavourably (in my mind) to my LO. 🤔

“You’re attracted to someone who’s like the parent (of either gender) with whom you had the most difficulties or issues.”

Schreiber may be onto something. At times I adored both my parents and at other times I loathed both my parents. I think I felt powerful feelings of ambivalence toward both Mother and Father. Adolescence intensified these feelings of ambivalence.

I feel like my biological father was the “Good Father” in my life. And my LO was the “Bad Father” (Bad Boy) I needed to experience at some point in my life to serve as a counterbalance to the Good Father. My real dad met my needs, unlike many people’s dads, whereas my LO was a rubbish version of the same thing. Maybe I needed a “lousy dad figure” in order to see and cultivate independence as an adult virtue?

“I’ve never met a lesbian who didn’t have significant issues with her mother.”

No need to apologise in advance. That’s my all-time favourite lesbian quote. And I’m sure my sister would enjoy it, too.

I think there’s a common misconception among straight people that gay people don’t have a robust sense of humour about being gay. We’re not defensive and militant all the time. Most of us are quite introspective. Do you want to know what gay people do when straight people aren’t around? Nothing shocking or outrageous. Mostly, we just sit around like pot-plants, drink endless cups of Earl Grey tea, and psychoanalyse ourselves… 😜

We don’t psychoanalyse ourselves because we feel bad about being gay. We psychoanalyse ourselves because it’s entertaining to peer into the murky depths of one’s own soul. (Why do some straight people shun introspection?) I am fascinated by my own failure to conform to some cookie-cutter mould. There are days when failing to fit into society feels like a remarkable achievement!! 🤣

Actually, my sister falls for “damsel-in-distress” borderline women. So, when it comes to affairs of the heart, she’d actually has a lot in common with heterolimerent straight men. She has the same fixer/rescuer fantasies. 😉

“If you can’t be happy because of the past, be happy in spite of it.”

Thank you for your well-wishes. Much appreciated. 😛