My one data point (plus knowing that correlation is not causation) is that I only got over limerence AFTER going off my SSRI. In fact, I finally felt anger towards my LO, which has been instrumental in me getting over the whole LE.

@InTheBlack,

I hope you get an answer to your question. I thought you might like to know that you are not alone. I was able to quit using antidepressants when I had frequent contact with my LO2. But it did lead to a bad case of limerence.

Best wishes!

@Palgal, you said that serotonin saved you from your thoughts? How did you get serotonin and how do you even take it? I’m curious because it’s been said low serotonin levels cause limerence, and I was weaning off of an anti-depressant drug when limerence caught me blind sided. They say stopping the meds can cause low serotonin so I often wonder if increasing my serotonin could rid me of the limerence. It is the one and only person this ever happened with. Thanks.

“When human beings aren’t allow to feel certain things, especially in childhood, that sets the stage for shame. And shame in childhood eventually sets the stage for addictive behaviours in adulthood. Limerence is a behavioural addiction. Maybe some people turn to limerence because it’s a less obviously offensive addiction than, say, addiction to alcohol?”

And going back to where Reader started, @reader

Just where I’m at. When ever I get stressed, (which I do by nature, always have done) my brain reaches for the warm thoughts of LO. Fighting it most days, it seems the New Year is a bad time for us? But recognising it has helped me reduce it and look for other less toxic methods of soothing.
I’ve also purged everything, phone, laptop, desktop, everywhere, it’s a good strategy, the stuff in my head can and will fade, those digital mementos are virtually indestructible.

@Dr. L: Could those “positive emotions of giddy limerence” be explained by oxytocin? And what about the dopamine/oxytocin link? Given all the positive things associated with oxytocin, it seems like using an LO to get an oxytocin boost would be the lesser evil, but I think what you are saying is to find a difference source to boost oxytocin levels?

My goodness, it’s like I wrote this comment myself. Yes, just want the idea of him at this point. Such a strange feeling.

MeridithAnn,

What makes you think you daughter might be exhibiting symptoms of BPD? Has she been evaluated by a professional? Many professionals aren’t all that savvy when dealing with personality disorders.

If you want to go after the physiological string, there are ways to do that but they can be time consuming and expensive.

10 years ago, my son was diagnosed with Type I diabetes. Serotonin and the pancreas are related. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2760753/#:~:text=The%20authors%20found%20that%20serotonin,this%20reaction%2C%20reducing%20insulin%20secretion.&text=The%20model%20that%20emerges%20from,in%20response%20to%20elevated%20glucose.)

He developed crippling anxiety and depression to the point of multiple hospitalizations and calling the police for violent behavior. We went through 4 psychiatrists and twice that number of therapists to help him. We had genetic testing done to see what would work and what wouldn’t. Some treatment options were off the table since they caused his blood sugar to be uncontrollable. One psychiatrist put him on Lithium and he had a breakdown on the freeway. Wrong drug. His endocrinologist was useless except for controlling the diabetes.

We were fortunate enough to find a holistic psychiatrist that knew how to look for root causes. She ran a lot of non-standard [read, “not covered by insurance”] tests and his chemical plant was really out of whack. Standard treatments didn’t work and therapists couldn’t reach him because his brain chemistry was that screwed up. They were trying. She weaned him off all the psychoactive drugs but one, put him on a regimen of specific supplements, and he’s coming around. It’s taking time but the improvement is nothing short of miraculous.

My point is there are avenues to explore to see if there is a reason behind the behavior that you can do something about. There may be answers and there may not be. One less encouraging thing was Western medicine is stove-piped and protocol driven. Endos know what they know and follow their protocols. Psychiatrists know what they know and follow their protocol. Therapists are the same way.

Nobody will love your daughter like you do. Sometimes, our son was a willing ally and sometimes he fought us tooth and nail.

But, in the end when he hit, he did everything we asked of him and the efforts are beginning to pay off for him. Since your daughter is a minor, depending on where you live, you still have some control over her.

I wish you the best.

Thank you so much for your reply and reference
I will check out the link and continue my own research into mental illness and mental wellness

…

Antidepressants have very little utility for treating addiction.”

I have some thoughts I’d like to share, which may not be strictly on topic, as this blog entry focuses on the brain chemicals at play in limerence. However, I’d like to touch on the cultural and environmental factors that feed into addiction… I just want to kick around a few seemingly unrelated ideas, and see whether they link up or not… 😛

I came up with this line of inquiry after “vulnerability” came up in a recent exchange with fellow blog-reader Marcia. 😛

I believe that the dominant emotion behind addiction is often shame. (Educator John Bradshaw’s books explore this theme in some detail). In a nutshell, human beings turn to addiction as a way of avoiding shame.

In Western culture, men are often shamed for having vulnerable feelings. (I.e. is he a real man? Is he even able to protect his family?). Women, on the other hand, are often shamed for strong negative emotions such as anger. (I.e. she’s not feminine enough. She’s not a nice person. She’s “too much”/attention-seeking).

I wonder if there is a link between limerence and taboo emotions? Or at least emotions that are taboo for certain sexes/genders in Western culture? That is to say, might men sometimes use limerence as a way to “numb” themselves against deep (and culturally unacceptable) feelings of vulnerability? Might women sometimes use limerence as a way to “numb” themselves to forbidden rage boiling away at the very core of their being, which they’re not allowed to access?

I’m an extremely eloquent, self-possessed gay man, and even I feel uncomfortable around so-called “angry women”. Angry women make me want to run away. And yet anger is a perfectly normal human emotion for both sexes… 😉

I believe some emotions in Western culture are gendered. E.g. an angry man is a man in charge whereas an angry woman is just hysterical/a basket case/mentally unstable. A vulnerable woman is sensitive/spiritual and a great mother, whereas a vulnerable man is pathetic, and of no use whatsoever to his spouse and kids.

When human beings aren’t allow to feel certain things, especially in childhood, that sets the stage for shame. And shame in childhood eventually sets the stage for addictive behaviours in adulthood. Limerence is a behavioural addiction. Maybe some people turn to limerence because it’s a less obviously offensive addiction than, say, addiction to alcohol? 🤔

I felt so good after I had my little chat about vulnerability with Marcia. It was like I needed a woman to give me “permission” (or give me the emotional space) to be vulnerable before I could allow myself to feel vulnerable. I couldn’t “feel the feelings” without permission from the opposite sex. Such “permission to be vulnerable” should ideally come from one’s own mother at critical points in child development. However, my own mother never gave me permission to be vulnerable and I ended up suppressing my vulnerable side indefinitely. Such suppression led to depression in my teens, and later despair in adulthood.

I think many a Western woman really needs a man in her life (preferably her father or her male partner) to give her permission to be angry, to own her feelings of indignation. When I was a little boy, I thought my mother was crazy. She seemed to be in a continual state of near-hysteria. She never really calmed down. Now I’m an adult man, I see my mother wasn’t crazy or hysterical per se. She was most likely angry at my father, (and other men in her life), yet she could never express that anger in a constructive way. Since she could never express her anger openly, she could never be at peace with herself, and the household was always tense as a result.

Time for a paradox: I think power and vulnerability are two sides of the same coin. A man can’t be truly powerful until he lays claim to his weakness and made friends with his vulnerable side. Maybe the same is true of women regarding anger? If a woman remains cuts off from her anger, eventually she will become cut off from her loving feelings too. She will become that unpleasant (i.e. spiteful, passive-aggressive) person other people so often accuse her of being. 😉

What we so often have in Western marriage is a man who’s numb to his vulnerable feelings, a woman who’s numb to her anger, and then a man and a woman who wonder why they’re so bored with life and bored with each other, and why the marriage is so unsatisfying and lacking in intimacy. Sometimes, the couple may divorce. Sometimes, limerence for someone outside the marriage may develop.

None of this relates very much to serotonin levels directly. But, maybe, in a very roundabout way, all these elements influence what’s going on in the brain? 😛

P.S. I’m a bit of a comedian. However, I’ve just realised I probably use comedy sometimes in an unhealthy way i.e. to stave off feelings of vulnerability, which could lead to greater connection, and very occasionally to express anger. I realise I resort to comedy so often because I’m still fleeing from “culturally-taboo-for-males” vulnerability. 🤔

Now let’s put these insights into a heteronormative context:

Let’s say we have a man who’s not allowed to feel his vulnerable feelings. What’s the next best thing for him? Maybe fantasies about rescuing someone who is allowed to be vulnerable? Maybe, oh I dunno, a beautiful damsel in distress?

Let’s say we have a woman who’s not allowed to seek power. What’s the next best thing for her? Maybe pairing up with a powerful man? Or dreaming about that powerful man lavishing her with attention? Then she’s powerful by association…

Limerence is about brain chemicals, obviously. But it’s also about wish fulfilment.😉