What about gang stalking crazy criminals that want to drive you çrszy or maybe they want to hide real crime against you and make you look like the bad guy including people inside the shelter system and law enforcement.Not A psychosis.

Sammy,

“INTJs are usually difficult to get to know well, and difficult to get close to. Those who are close to the INTJ will highly value them for their ideas and knowledge. Although INTJs are generally very serious-minded people, they also have been known to enjoy letting loose and having fun, if others pull them into it. They also can be really good at telling jokes, and exhibiting a sarcastic wit with a poker face.

The INTJ is not likely to choose to spend time with people who they feel don’t have anything to offer the INTJ. They especially like to spend time with other Intuitive Thinkers, and also usually enjoy the company of Intuitive Feelers. These personality types love to theorize and speculate about ideas, and so can usually relate well to the INTJ, who loves to analyze ideas.

Many INTJs believe that they are always right. In some INTJs, this belief is quite obvious, while in others it is more subtle. Some people may have a difficult time accepting what they see as a “superior attitude” or “snobbery”. Not to imply that INTJs are snobbish, just that some people with strong Feeling preferences may perceive them that way. And some individuals simply have no interest in the theoretical pursuits which the INTJ enjoys.” – https://www.personalitypage.com/html/INTJ_rel.html

It sounds like you.

This is mine:

“The ENTJ thoroughly enjoys lively, intellectual conversations – welcoming such interaction as a learning opportunity for all parties involved. They have a tendency to be direct and challenging when interacting with others, which tends to put people on the defensive. This is in fact exactly what they’re after – the ENTJ wants to learn what you know, and understand as many of the nuances of your knowledge as the context of the conversation will allow. They go after this knowledge in a very direct, confrontational manner. With this approach, they will learn not only the facts of the knowledge, but also the background of the individual’s stance on that piece of knowledge. How well does the individual understand the topic? How invested is the individual in their stance? This method of “unsettling” people has the effect of livening up conversations and stimulating learning, when the other conversationalists are able to easily withstand the interrogations of the ENTJ. People who are uncomfortable with being challenged, or who are less than confident in the topic being discussed, are likely to be subdued into not expressing themselves with the ENTJ. This is a bit of a shame, since many people have valuable things to offer, but are not always willing to stand on top of a mountain and strongly shout their views to the world.” – https://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENTJ_rel.html

In a previous life, I was conducting a fact-finding into an event we had. One of our NCIS agents sat in it. After it was over, he asked me where I’d learned to interrogate people since that’s what I’d been doing. I told him I never had any training on it. He said I was good at it and said he could make me better. I spent some time with him learning interrogation techniques and written statement analysis. It was really interesting.

When I went to war with LO #4 for stonewalling me, I reread this and our correspondence. I had been interrogating her. I wanted to see if I could knock her off balance. From the way we had communicated, I thought she liked my directness. It was not the right way to communicate with her. I don’t know if she was used to someone being that direct with her or I was just too intense. I sent her that quote and told her I’d back off. In her goodbye, one of the things she brought up was my “…angry emails when you felt dismissed or ignored.” The she said, “I don’t like how that feels.” But, she didn’t elaborate on the precise reason.

As one of my sub CO’s told me:

“There’s a fine line between assertive and obnoxious. You, Mr. LE, are frequently on the wrong side of that line.”

Life is interesting.

Sammy,
You mentioned intensity in your post to LE. I would disagree, at least from my own experience. I think intensity freaks most people out. I have spent most of my life toning myself down. In romance, yes, but also in friendship or family relationships. I find that I usually want a lot more than other people do. I don’t mean that in terms of a physical relationship but in terms of, for a lack of a better description, “sharing and caring.” That may be why your vulnerability rings a bell with me. Most people don’t show that, or don’t display who they are. I have a family member who actually contacts me almost daily but never with anything more than the weather, work, tv shows. I have tried to go deeper and was told I’m too “dark” and “serious.” So we talk about what he wants to talk about … all the time, without even so much as a shred of understanding on his part about how that feels like crumbs to me, when it’d be nice to have the whole damn meal … at least every now and then. 🙂
“You’re right about the vulnerability thing. Somewhere deep inside me, maybe in the muscles of my chest, there’s what feels like trapped pain.”
Could be, yes.
” Is this why some people might be uncomfortable with hugging even close family members and/or spouses? (They don’t want to be reminded of their own buried feelings of vulnerability?)”
Possibly.
“I actually think women are very subtly aroused by male bonding, particularly if it’s one’s own husband or boyfriend who’s in on the bonding”
I don’t think it’s arousal. It’s a happiness for the male partner, an understanding that he needs to have a connection with other men who can tap into a part of his personality that she can’t. Also, watching male bonding is fascinating for women. Male bonding is so different than female bonding. I mean, SO different. 🙂
“secretly want a male in the group to “set the emotional tone”. Women don’t want to do all the work of holding a social organisation together.”
I think it’s an emotional labor. Women don’t’ want to do all of it. They are TIRED. 🙂 A woman works full time, she has children who need to be cared for, the husband expects her to be there emotionally, then she is usually the one who maintains/organizes the couple’s social life and ties with extended family … she’s TIRED! 🙂

“I haven’t met you face to face but I don’t think you are intimidating. First of all, I think you are a kind and decent person. I think there’s a vulnerability in your writing. And you are a deep thinker — trying to understand your place in the world and your interactions with other people.”

@Marcia.

That’s a sweet thing to say, and also very perceptive. Thank you. 😛

You’re right about the vulnerability thing. Somewhere deep inside me, maybe in the muscles of my chest, there’s what feels like trapped pain.

I wonder: do human beings store feelings of vulnerability in their chests? The middle of my chest feels tight even as I write this. Maybe that’s why I’m so big on hugs? When I hug another man, or even a woman, could I be connecting the most vulnerable part of my body with the most vulnerable part of his/her body? Is this why some people might be uncomfortable with hugging even close family members and/or spouses? (They don’t want to be reminded of their own buried feelings of vulnerability?)

The vulnerability can of course be largely explained away as a trivial limerent-y “fear of rejection”. And all limerents probably have this fear in common. It’s odd how the fear of rejection never really goes away, even as one gets older and a heck of a lot more confident…

However, not to worry. I’ve discovering that emotional vulnerability in myself is an asset I can exploit to foster connection with others. I.e. initially, as a younger man, I thought I had to get rid of all the vulnerability feelings and then I’d qualify as a “real man” and other males in my life would automatically accept me. I wouldn’t have to fear rejection anymore. Reality doesn’t work like that, unfortunately. Other men aren’t emotionless beings. Other men are often storing feelings of vulnerability in their chests too.

I’ve realised that if I “go first” and show my vulnerability, then other males – including straight males – suddenly feel free to show their vulnerable side. It’s like the tension goes out of the air. It’s weird, but it’s like my presence in a social gathering allows the other men to relax and stop acting so macho. If I lay down my armour/show my soft underbelly, other males follow suit. But it’s my job to “go first”. (Am I really the alpha?) I seem to be some kind of “emotional elder” in my family. People seem to be unconsciously looking to me for leadership.

But do you know who really loves seeing men get along well with other men? It’s women, and especially older women. I actually think women are very subtly aroused by male bonding, particularly if it’s one’s own husband or boyfriend who’s in on the bonding, and reaping some of the accolades. I guess we’ve evolved live in tribes, after all, and nuclear families are just a modern anomaly. 🤔

Feelings of goodwill between adult males unify the tribe, and underwrite survival of all members. Women can allow themselves to relax when the younger males are kept in line. I think senior women in the group, who are perfectly capable of assuming leadership positions themselves, secretly want a male in the group to “set the emotional tone”. Women don’t want to do all the work of holding a social organisation together. (And quite right, too).

For a long time, I thought being gay automatically excluded me from the tribe. But it seems like I might be situated much closer to the heart of “my tribe” than I ever thought possible… I seem to be the second highest-ranking male in my family after my father, heaven help me. I’m not ready for the responsibility yet. I never wanted the top job. Actually, that’s a lie – I always wanted the top job until I realised how dangerously close I am to getting it. Terrifying! 😉

Anthropology lesson over for today. 😛

“Has anyone ever told you that they weren’t afraid of you? Have you ever told anyone that you weren’t afraid of them?

That’s a boundary tester. You can do a lot with it.”

@Limerent Emeritus.

Yeah, there’s something very erotic about testing boundaries, and I guess that’s the sort of behaviour limerents ideally should be avoiding, as intriguing as it is! Also, it’s the kind of thing naughty LOs specialise in! However, I like cheeky people in general. 😛

I know people are afraid of me sometimes because until recently I didn’t have very good command of non-verbal communication in the area of my face/eyes. It can be super-intimidating if I launch into a conversation, say, (or, worse, start offering unsolicited criticism!) and I haven’t first “paved the way” by making eye contact, smiling, waiting for a smile in response, etc.

I’ve got all these non-verbal communication things down pat now. Eye contact and smiling is almost instinctive. My acting chops are impressive. As someone on the spectrum, I act every day of my life just to fit in. I can “pass for normal”. But it wasn’t always the case…

Oddly enough, even though I didn’t always give people enough eye contact growing up, etc, people often ended up liking/respecting me anyway. I could never understand why this was so, until I realised that neurotypical folk LOVE LOVE LOVE to gossip! Apparently, I was the object of a lot of favourable gossip, for some weird reason, in school, especially amongst the teachers). I had a good reputation. I won the Christian character award two years in a row. On the other hand, one of the teachers who gave me the award also said I need to work on “relating well to others”. Mixed messages much? 😆

It’s odd how one can have terrible people skills and still be seen as a budding moral paragon? I’m not sure how that works exactly…

I suppose the kids who ended up being my friends in school were the kids who kept talking to me, even though I didn’t give them a lot of encouragement, although I always was listening, believe it or not. I didn’t really pick my friends. my friends more or less picked me. 😛

“My wife said that when she first met me I scared her. I asked why. She said that I was older, established, oozed confidence, that I knew what I wanted and I wanted her. She was 23, a year out of college and I was 32.”

It sounds like your wife liked your “intensity”, although she was originally a bit unnerved by it? I think that’s nice. It suggests there’s something attractive about what limerents bring to the romance table. (Probably loyalty/a heightened devotion to their partners in the courtship phase). 😛

LE,
“I liked you a lot better before you started giving me your resume.”
Exactly. I thought maybe he was looking for a wife and thought listing his “practical” credentials would help ? Who knows. No one has ever landed a limerent by talking about practical gobbledygook right off the bat. 🙂 I’ve got to feel for you, baby! 🙂

Marcia,

That’s what I meant. There’s no reason to go into that degree of detail until the relationship reaches a point where it becomes relevant.

There’s any number of reasons he might do that. He might be trying to impress you with his status. He might just be one-dimensional that’s what he brings to the table. It might be something else entirely. He could just be clueless. Did you try to redirect him?

I remember being in the Officer’s Club in 1981. An attractive woman came in. Toss in the bar tender and we were the only people in the place. She outranked me. She started telling me all about her career, how she’d worked on some admiral’s staff and got all these commendations. That was it, nothing but her career.

I must have said something because she asked, “What’s the matter? Don’t you like assertive women?” I told her that it depended on why they were being assertive.

I told her, “I liked you a lot better before you started giving me your resume.” Then, I finished my beer and left.

It’s not that. It was like talking to my dad. I was 24. I wanted to have fun with a hot guy. Next he was going to whip out his tax returns to discuss them. 🙂

Marcia,

Then, he screwed up. When a woman wants those details, at some point, she’ll let you know .