I’m sorry but how do you draw that conclusion here? The description is clear in that they had a flirtatious evening and he want to pursue while she doesn’t. No crime has been commited.

Honestly, as a former limerant with a ex co-worker, this accusation of predatory behavior by an outsider is one of the most hurtful things you can do, and you should be very careful throwing that around.

I’ve experienced it when jealous types were gossiping about my limerant situation and it’s really not cool because personal emotions are involved. FYI: I expressed interest and she was clear that it was non-reciprocal. I never pursued anything after, although it was clear that the relationship deteriorated. That was difficult enough but I mainly left my previous job because of other people gossiping about it. It was super hurtful.

Expressing interest (limerant) and setting boundaries (LO) is perfectly fine. It’s human nature. What matters is how we conduct ourselves after. Not all men are predators.

“Can risk ever be taken out of the equation altogether?”
No. Human relationships of any kind will always involve, to a varying degree, rejection, invalidation, envy, feelings of inadequacy, etc… but they also bring joy, validation, warmth, connection. The human condition is just downright challenging at times isn’t it! The trick is to use your mind to actively grow your emotional resilience so the suffering, while very painful, is fleeting.

There is nothing wrong with love and romance and it should be encouraged, but Emma has that already with someone else and regardless of Big Shot’s intentions, what matters is that she is uncomfortable it with it and should not feel as if she has to walk on eggshells due to his actions.

Hopefully, if Emma gives him the chance to save face, as Dr. L, mentions, he will recognize that nothing will occur and will respond as any adult should, accept it and move on.

Emma and Mr Big Shot don’t actually work together, but are part of the same industry. This suggest two things to me:

(1) Emma is not in immediate danger of sexual harassment, as she’s not in close physical proximity to Mr Big Shot everyday. Physical safety is not a primary concern.

(2) If Emma did want to date Mr Big Shot, there would be no conflict of interest, as I don’t think there are any legal or cultural sanctions against people who merely work in the same industry from dating.

So we can rule out sexual harassment and conflict of interest as potential problems in this case.

So what’s the real issue? It seems to me that the real issue is that Emma wants to disengage (tactfully) from an unwanted suitor – Mr Big Shot. Unfortunately, she may have unintentionally given this suitor some early signs of encouragement by (1) being her presumably delightful self at the conference and (2) giving out her personal email address, suggesting she’s way more available than she actually is.

If Mr Big Shot isn’t a regular suitor, but a limerent suitor, as Emma suspects, the situation becomes a lot more delicate, as it can be very hard to brush off interest from a limerent suitor, once they’ve become fixated, due to the obsessive nature of limerence, etc. Emma comes across as a good, decent, conscientious person and obviously wants to handle this situation with the maximum amount of tact.

Unfortunately, diplomatic approaches that might work very well in a situation not involving limerence might backfire or prove ineffective in a situation involving limerence. Limerents can be notoriously “hard of hearing” regarding rejection. Polite refusals can be misconstrued as hope. And yet Emma may not be a naturally blunt person. She might not know how to voice an unambiguous “no”.

Full disclosure: I have a special interest in Emma’s story. The reason I’m so interested in Emma’s story is it has many parallels to a limerent situation I found myself in many years ago. I was Mr Big Shot, minus the prestigious career. My LO was Emma, only in a male body.

I am hoping that by exploring Emma’s situation in a little more depth, I can gain insight into my own past too. I don’t mean to dominate the conversation, or dictate the truth, or be dogmatic or overbearing. Rather, I’m hoping to rustle up ideas and/or insights that could turn out to be universally applicable. 😛

My LO, who Emma reminds me of, was a straight man. However, he was a straight man with a very pronounced feminine side to his personality. In other words, he was an usually empathic human being, and this empathy was even more striking because (a) it was in a man and not a woman, and (b) because it was in so young a man.

My LO did become aware of my limerence for him, just as Emma is aware of Mr Big Shot’s possible excessive interest in her, and my LO tried to use a variety of tactful methods to resolve the situation, while keeping the friendship intact. Oddly enough, he did want an ongoing friendship with me. What he didn’t want was to be my LO. He didn’t want to be the object of irrational adoration, in other words…

In a truly free world, I’d argue that just as people have the right to refuse unwanted sexual activity, people have the right to refuse unwanted adoration. People have a right not to be put on pedestals. Idols have the right not to be worshipped. If a man or a woman doesn’t wish to embody my fantasies, should I as a limerent really be imposing my fantasies on him/her, especially if a genuine friendship exists between us? Am I not, to put it bluntly, being something of a “pain in the neck” to my unlucky LO? 😛

When I read Emma’s story, I was immediately reminded of the strained relationship said to exist between Alfred Hitchcock and Tippi Hedren. It seems that maybe Hitchcock cast all his leading ladies in a particular archetypal role (blonde ice princess) and maybe Tippi didn’t want to play along with this role, unlike many of the other actresses. Maybe Tippi was a serious actress, a woman with a great deal of personal integrity, and she just wanted to live her own life?

She didn’t want to be the plaything of someone else’s erotic imagination, in other words. Not even if that imagination belonged to a recognised genius. Hitchcock reportedly sabotaged Tippi’s career after she wouldn’t play along with what he wanted, and by all reports some very unsavory things happened when they were working together too. (Unsavoury things such as sexual harassment and worse).

I’m not suggesting that Emma’s situation is anywhere near as dire as Tippi’s. But limerence does raise all sort of ethical questions about the human right to dignity and the human right to freedom. If people have the right to adore and be adored, then surely people also have the right NOT to be adored by particular people who make them feel uneasy, as harsh as that might sound?

Usually, when it comes to limerence, I try to adopt a neutral stance. I try to see things from the perspective of both parties. But in Emma’s case, I would like to abandon all pretence at a neutral stance and champion Emma’s point of view. Or, at least, I want to champion what I PERCEIVE to be Emma’s point of view – which is the point of view of the non-limerent LO.

I want to champion Emma’s point of view (the non-limerent LO, who is the unwitting target of someone else’s adoration) because, when I was limerent for someone like Emma, I feel I wasn’t receptive to his perspective. In other words, I’m siding with Emma out of a desire to make up for my own past blindness. 🙂

It seems to me that Emma, just like my own LO, wants to find a tactful solution to a delicate problem. I’m a very straightforward person. My LO, being tactful, beat around the bush constantly, and that only worsened the situation, and intensified my limerent feelings for him. Limerence sometimes seems like the one situation where good manners and veiled honesty don’t work as well as one would hope…

If one wants to talk realpolitik, I think Emma should completely ignore and delete any emails Mr Big Shot sends to her personal email address. No contact starves limerence, right, and gives the limerent nothing to obsess over? Also, if Mr BIg Shot wishes to contact Emma on work-related matters, the professional thing for him to do is to contact her through her work email. Emma, if backed into a corner, could even say that her company has a policy that work-related matters have to go through work-related channels.

I think the really heartbreaking thing about limerence is that sometimes it can’t be shut down by normal polite methods. Sometimes, you have to play hardball, even if you’re not used to playing hardball. Sometimes, you really just have to get out of the limerent’s line of sight, so they can find something else to fixate on.

Emma, I wish you all the best. Tough dilemma, honey. Tough dilemma. Honestly, I’d just get out of this man’s way, even if it seems a bit rude. If he’s truly limerent for you, he might even thank you for ignoring him one day. Don’t play games. Don’t give out mixed signals. Ignoring this man and his personal emails might just be the best strategy. Play dumb, and don’t bother giving any explanation. Like I said before, all human beings have a right NOT to be adored, and don’t have to come up with any fancy explanations as to why they don’t want adoration from a particular person.

Sometimes, LOs prolong the painful fascination they’ve inspired by trying to be “too nice”. Don’t focus on being nice. Focus on acting with integrity, and giving very consistent signals. Either you’re interested in this man romantically or you’re not. Figure out which it is, and stick to it. If you behave with integrity, this man will forgive you eventually if you hurt him. Or, at least, he’d have no real grounds for hating you or finding fault with you. Limerence then becomes HIS problem to deal with, and not yours.

On a side note, philosophical types may ask in response to my comments, “But do we really live in a free world?” I think the only honest answer to this question is yes and no. Limerents, as I see it, are both the victims and the beneficiaries of their hereditary. And LOs are both the victims and the beneficiaries of the adoration they receive from limerents.

I feel both limerents and LOs have to work together and communicate clearly to end the “toxic dance” that sometimes arises between them. But limerents aren’t amenable to reason while in the throes of limerence. The deep conversations often have to wait until a particular limerent episode has ended for good. 😛

“I just wonder if this guy/situation is glimmering for Emma a bit..?”

@Thomas.

I agree it’s perfectly possible Emma is feeling a bit of a glimmer in this situation. Maybe this guy would be quite the catch if he were less pushy. However, if Emma is feeling a bit of a glimmer, and for a guy who seems to like her too, that presents it’s own difficulties.

Emma could choose to indulge in any feelings she has in the form of limerent reverie, etc, get hooked, and end up having her heart broken down the line. This guy could be one of those fellows who just bolts out of the gate when it comes to romance, and then gets cold feet and pulls back sharply. The mixture of hope and uncertainty could result in Emma herself having a full-blown limerent episode on her hands, since she is prone to limerence…

The issue then would be the sincerity/insincerity of Mr Big Shot’s original show of interest. Does he really like Emma? Or is he just playing a little game to get a ego boost?

I guess this is what flirting is traditionally about – trying to gauge the other person’s level of interest. However, I think limerents really struggle to get an accurate reading on LO’s feelings. But I guess “normal people” also struggle to understand the motivations of potential partners. And plenty of people flirt for recreation.

My biggest concern in the same situation would be that Mr Big Shot is a PLAYER. But I guess I’d only care he was a player if I liked him to begin with.

Here’s an interesting hypothetical. Let’s say all insincere flirting in the world could be eliminated in one stroke. Would the world be a better place or a worst place? We might have fewer broken hearts. We also might have less excitement overall and fewer unlikely-but-ultimately compatible couples ending up together.

Romance seems to be very hit and miss, in my opinion. And it causes people so much pain. And yet, if one wants romance, one has to keep getting up on the horse, even after being thrown off multiple times. I salute the resilience of human beings in general. But I wish there was some logical formula we could follow too in order to get a good outcome. I wish romance wasn’t just emotions.

I wish romance was both “safe” and “exciting”. Not merely one of those two things. But can something be exciting without risk? And, as grown-ups, do we just have to assume risk when seeking out companionship? Can risk ever be taken out of the equation altogether?

Thomas,
‘what the world needs now is love, sweet love… AND A LOT LESS TIMIDITY’
I don’t think our culture rewards boldness right now, so I don’t see this as a big hit. 🙂

Yes, that’s right, Allie. He is in the same profession but they’ve never worked together.

I’ve obviously been a bit vague about the details to anonymise Emma’s situation, but the initial contact and email exchange was more along the lines of trading insider gossip, rather than the start of a shared project. I suspect that is why she used her personal email (although the speculation about subconscious motives is not unreasonable).

Feels like a pre-defined tactic to me. How can you get that emotional about someone you just met at a conference?

In this post #MeToo world Men probably can’t come on too strong so he’s figured this is a more subtle move.