“The whole point I was trying to make is that pair bonding is the core strategy, with covert infidelity on the side being an evolutionary bonus.”

I’m going to challenge that covert aspect and its benefit in a couple ways.

First, is anything in a long term marriage ever truly covert? Admittedly, this is my first post and I have come to your site in an attempt to learn how one can succumb to limerence. Personally, I have dealt with limerence more times than I can count on one hand in my 15 year marriage. This is simply how I have been from a fairly young age. The first time within marriage was the hardest, but ultimately, logically, I concluded that risking the respect, love and devotion of my family, custody of my children all while willfully hurting my wife far outweighed the potential experience. Every subsequent time it happened simply required reminding of that fact and each time it was easier to deal with. (Anybody reading some of the other comments on here stating how all men would cheat given the chance, take note – decent, moral men
of conscience wouldn’t) However, my wife is 7 years younger and didn’t possess my foresight or emotional intelligence when she had an affair over 8 years ago now. I’ve known for almost 2 years and know she was fully dealing with limerence. While it was covert at the time, in my experience the truth always comes out. She also failed to see the habitual adulterer and sexual predator in her LO such was her limerence. I’ve dealt with long term depression before and am no stranger to emotional pain, but in this there is no comparison. I struggle frequently how she didn’t come to the same conclusion in risk as I did, despite those shortcomings. She is a compassionate, intelligent and largely selfless woman. She sees it now with the affair fog long removed, but cannot explain her stupidity. She acknowledges she was weak, in a bad place emotionally and mentally and not communicating that nearly well enough, despite me knowing and being empathetic. She also acknowledges our marriage was happy at the time – far from perfect as seen with that communication disconnect (now rectified), but all of that simply further serves for confusion on how she gave in to something I’ve come to see as the natural ebb and flow of life – something to be witnessed and aware of, even appreciated, but not requiring action upon.

Secondly, how is such a dishonest, destructive act in any way a bonus? I also saw what having an affair, myself, would do to me. The regret, guilt, duplicity and betrayal would erode my soul more than I’d be willing to bear. You’ve mentioned consent being a cornerstone, and while I’m very open and, had I known maybe would have given consent, I would also agree with what you’ve said you’ve seen from your inbox in that the parade of open relationships often turns into a car crash. There are too many uncontrolled variables to account for. Obviously in the face of such betrayal and the pain I’m now in, my view on an open relationship has significantly shifted and such consent will likely now never be given. It’s also even further steeled me against any limerence leading to an affair myself. I’m sorry but I see no benefits to breaking the vow I made to the mother of my children and wife I’ve largely been happy with. Were I in an unhappy, boring, lifeless or sexless marriage, the situation would be a little different, but my conclusion the same. We are both intelligent people overall happy with the other and obviously willing to put in the work for a successful marriage considering we’re still together. The effect the affair has had on us and our household notwithstanding.

Regardless, I’ve appreciated your blog and some of the insight it gives and will likely continue reading in search of answers and some peace.

Hi Alyn1,

I was looking at this from the perspective that inequality in general is a destabilising force in society. Most people are OK with a bit of inequality, as long as they believe they have a “fair shot”, as it were.

In unfettered capitalism, wealth inequality accelerates at the top, because capital can make money faster than labour (see Thomas Piketty et al). In unfettered coupling, a minority of men attract a majority of women (Dating apps are proving this by running a natural experiment for us).

Allie1 is right that I am talking about polygyny, but that’s because it’s the form that polygamy almost always seems to take, historically – certainly since the dawn of civilisations larger than small nomadic tribes.

In both cases, without social pressures and legal structures to constrain the multiplier effects at the top (wealth leads to more income, attractiveness leads to more mates) those left behind feel that society is unfair and so burn it down.

So, in this analogy “the uncompetitive” are the people who cannot attract a mate in a system where the “select few” can take many partners. Unfortunately, it seems that people don’t distribute themselves into evenly balanced polyamorous groups – there is a mating elite just as surely as there is a financial elite.

Not sure if that clarifies 😉 but fingers crossed!

Yes I did not understand that either Alyn1.
I get the impression that Dr L is confusing polygyny and polyamory… this confusion occurs in other places in this series of articles too. This sentence makes sense to me when talking about how low value men are uncompetitive in a polygynous culture and resent being excluded from relationships due to lack of available women. In polyamory, since both men and women can choose (or not) to have multiple committed relationships, mate competition is the same as in a monogamous culture.

Who are the “uncompetitive”? Does this mean that people in monogamous relationships will resent being excluded from a polyamorous culture?

This guy turned her down. There was no reason to go to the spouse.

“In the end, he showed his own moral panic by writing to my partner to in effect ‘dob me in’. The LO thought I’d lied to him about the open marriage idea and that I was trying to have an affair behind my partner’s back. He then took it upon himself to tell my partner.”

If you only knew how many people SAY, “we have an open marriage” or “we have ‘an understanding'” but are lying through their caps then you might understand why he would inform your spouse.

After all, cheaters lie and even people in “open marriages” can lie and cheat.

So next time, tell your prospect to speak to your spouse directly to be reassured that you are on the up-and-up.

I wouldn’t trust your LO. It’s one thing to turn down your proposal (which is his choice) — to be grossed out by it, afraid of it, disgusted by it, want to distance himself from you because of it, however he responds. But to got your husband? He’s what I describe as a “sh** disturber.”

For an open marriage to work there needs to be complete honesty between all concerned. I’ve been happily married for 20 years. We have a child, but my partner is 20 years older than me. There is also a complicated mismatch sexually. We have sex, but he is not able to be romantic and he does not like kissing. Therefore, I have not been kissed in 20 years. Some would say I shouldn’t have married him, but all his other attributes were a great draw and the sex is good. But, he is not going to change. I find the lack of romance and kissing hard and it saddens me. I love my partner, but I don’t want to live a unfulfilled life. And, as he gets older the mismatch in age will become more apparent and perhaps stark. He has been an exceptional father to our child and I would want to repay that attention by caring for him into his old age, but not at my expense. We are at very different life stages. He sees that and has agreed that I can pursue extra-marital relationships. Not all extra-marital, intimate relationships have to be about sex. But, who that relationship would be with would have to be very carefully chosen for all the downsides listed — jealousy etc. But, British culture does seem to be very disapproving of the open marriage idea. In France and Germany, it is alot more common. I blame poor communication skills of the British LOL! But, seriously, I’m not really talking about lots of relationships on top of a marriage. I think that is complicated. Recently, I became attached to someone who could have theoretically filled the romance gap and potentially just been my kissing partner, as he was never going to be able to have penetrative sex and was also a very busy person. I thought it an ideal choice! However, my proposal was not taken up. It turned out that he was socially conservative. He instead became my limerence LO. I think he was attracted to me (in his own unusual way), but he could not entertain the idea of an open marriage. Hardly surprising, but his reaction was extremely complicated and it opened my eyes to the fact that most people (in Britain) find the idea unfathomable and dangerous. In the end, he showed his own moral panic by writing to my partner to in effect ‘dob me in’. The LO thought I’d lied to him about the open marriage idea and that I was trying to have an affair behind my partner’s back. He then took it upon himself to tell my partner. The whole thing unravelled and became extremely messy due to his inability to communicate openly and honestly. I could go on … but mostly, I still believe it’s a possible lifestyle, but not for the faint hearted.

Allie,
I suspect that’s what most of this stuff will be: bucket-list items. One and done. I would say I’m a medium-risk person, with a few high-risk moments thrown in. I need more high-risk moments. I abhor wussification. 🙂

[Inappropriate content edited by Dr L]

Reminder again that this is a public site directed to helping people cope with limerence. Please take off topic personal discussions to forum – Thanks, Dr L

Ah am getting you now. I have to admit that in my youth, I tried a lot of different “things” mostly because I liked the idea of them. But in reality, they were often rather disappointing, and ended up being bucket list cross-offs rather than “things” I would want to do regularly.
Sorry to say but no experience has ever compared to falling in-love and limerent consummation.
Have never tried heroin mind you.
(and never will!)