Hi Sammy,
“It was other emotionally-laden things that sent me into flights of ecstasy. E.g. receiving a nice gift, receiving handwritten letters, an embrace that blurred the lines between friendship and romance, and other friends sort of seeing us as an “old married couple”.”
I’ve had friendships like that. They were very intense and very emotionally fulfilling, but they were platonic and I had no sexual interest.
“I think there’s this mysterious grey area between friendship and romance, and that’s a very fertile breeding-ground for limerent feelings. ”
Hmm … not for me. Friendship is separate from the LO. The LO’s job is to bring the sexy. 🙂 Unfortunately, with the one LO I had who became a boyfriend, once the LE wore off, we ended up as friends (as not as close as the platonic friends I mentioned) who were having lukewarm sex.
“When LO got a girlfriend/wife/sexual partner, I wasn’t jealous. I didn’t see her as a threat. ”
Every time one of my super close platonic friends got an SO, the friendship was over. Sometimes slowly, sometimes almost overnight.
“In other words, LO was ready to move onto the next phase of his life whereas I wanted to cling to the adolescent friendship indefinitely.”
Cling on, my friend, cling on. Adulthood is boring.

@Marcia. “I don’t know how lust couldn’t be a part of it. Aren’t you dying to get your LO in a room and go to town … And if you ever do have sex with an LO, it will have an intensity that is much different than with a regular crush or person of interest.”

I get what you’re saying. But what actually happened with my biggest LO/LE was a little different. I think I liked the idea of potentially having sex with this person, but didn’t actually want to have sex. (Did I just want LO to give me that option so then I could refuse it? Did I want power over my LO? Goodness, this is getting deep! That’s the other dark side of limerence – the mind games).

It was other emotionally-laden things that sent me into flights of ecstasy. E.g. receiving a nice gift, receiving handwritten letters, an embrace that blurred the lines between friendship and romance, and other friends sort of seeing us as an “old married couple”.

I think there’s this mysterious grey area between friendship and romance, and that’s a very fertile breeding-ground for limerent feelings. I think I wanted LO to desire me. I wanted to be desired. Desire might have been enough. And limerence would have faded instantly once desire had been indicated (and firmly rejected).

When LO got a girlfriend/wife/sexual partner, I wasn’t jealous. I didn’t see her as a threat. I know that sounds ludicrous (and is probably very insulting to the poor woman). But, if it’s any consolation, she didn’t see me as a threat either – she just thought I was her partner’s eccentric friend who should probably move on now that he (LO) is married and has real responsibilities.

In other words, LO was ready to move onto the next phase of his life whereas I wanted to cling to the adolescent friendship indefinitely.

Sammy,
“Honestly, it’s taken me a long time to wrap my head around that aspect of limerence because, you know, you’re not supposed to feel lust for a friend, let alone a same-sex friend, etc. That’s just weird and creepy, right?”
No. You want who you want. The other person might not feel the same way or might be with someone else, but that doesn’t stop you from having your feelings. We can’t always act on all our feelings, but we still have them.
“Because so much of limerence takes place in our heads, the link with lust doesn’t always seem obvious.”
I don’t know how lust couldn’t be a part of it. Aren’t you dying to get your LO in a room and go to town? 🙂 I agree that there is a lot more to limerence than lust — the longing for reciprocation, the idealization of the person– but lust is a huge component of it. And if you ever do have sex with an LO, it will have an intensity that is much different than with a regular crush or person of interest.

@Sammy Thank you for your (as always) well considered and thoughtful response. I love the dragon analogy! I think what I really want is the tame the dragon and then ride it 😉
Good point about the unreciprocated limerence…that does have a different edge to it. I must admit that my LEs have never caused me long-lived pain, whether reciprocated or not, but I have teetered on the brink of that so do understand the feeling.
Wishing you well.

@Allie. I admire your willingness to take responsibility for your limerence. I feel that your approach is a healthy one. You seek to domesticate the dragon rather than slay the dragon, which is a valid approach – and one that Tennov suggested in her research. (Limerence can in theory do a lot less harm to us if we tame it).

I feel what you’re saying is: if we make friends with the complicated humanity lurking within us, then we don’t have to rush to label ourselves, other people and situations as either good or bad. You’ve developed your own moral code based on compassion & empathy, which also doesn’t exclude a modicum of self-interest at times.

I think your approach is maybe more suited to cases of mutual limerence than unrequited limerence? In unrequited limerence, generally the obsession has ceased to yield any pleasure and it’s just never-ending torment. People in this situation just want the madness to end. Getting rid of the pain is pretty much the only goal because the pain makes it impossible to focus on anything else.

I think maybe there is something tragic about limerence when it reaches this point. But the fault doesn’t lie with LOs, strictly speaking. The fault lies within human biology itself. In Mother Nature’s eyes, pair-bonding is apparently a more important goal than happiness – at least for some people. It’s a no-win situation.

Unhappy people are probably going to do a good job of making the people around them unhappy as an inevitable outcome of their own unhappiness. (Humans being are social creatures). I think as a species, we all have a vested interest in helping unhappy limerents (so their suffering doesn’t diminish our own peace of mind). There you go – helping unhappy limerents is a form of self-interest!

(Maybe my “honourable behaviour” is just self-interest dressed up in disguise?) Other people’s happiness affects our own. 🙂

@Allie. I would say that it isn’t honourable (or conducive to good relationships in general) to “place unrealistic behavioural expectations on other people and then judge them as lacking or weak when they don’t live up to them”.

But gosh, judging other people can be so much fun! (Which is why us humans probably do it so much!) 🙂

Honour is obviously nice. Altruism is nice. But I can only adopt certain values for myself. I can’t impose them on or require them of other people. Also, selflessness can also be misguided at times. I.e. an overprotective parent who refuses to let a child grow up. If you beat limerence on your own, too, instead of relying on LO’s “divine intervention”, you’re probably going to value that triumph a lot more than if it was handed to you. You’ve gained self-mastery.

Compassionate relating sounds like a great strategy for getting through life. I can see how empathy and compassion are more helpful as guides to human behaviour than strict rules. Hopefully, as we mature, we all drift toward this approach. (Though one again I may be imposing my ideals upon others! Hahaha!)

I can see, in hindsight, how selfish and insensitive limerent behaviour and/or assumptions can be. (Particularly if only one person is getting high!) Still, while experiencing the worst parts of limerence, I was completely overcome with negative emotions. Never experienced anything like it – anger, rage, jealousy, envy, self-pity, self-loathing, dread. And, of course, when you can’t get relief from pain, the desire to judge the apparent cause is strong!

Limerent-non-limerent attractions have an in-built asymmetry (the non-limerent LO is a lot more “emotionally free” than the limerent. Hence the LO can kind of take or leave the relationship. This “liberty” I think is devastating and heart-breaking to the person experiencing “compulsory longing”. But, as Pawel points out, LOs may be entirely unaware of the obsession they’ve inspired. (And others may feel baffled or frightened by their friend’s mental state).

Self-compassion sounds great! I’m working on that one! 🙂

@Marcia. I think you’re spot on about the lust thing. Honestly, it’s taken me a long time to wrap my head around that aspect of limerence because, you know, you’re not supposed to feel lust for a friend, let alone a same-sex friend, etc. That’s just weird and creepy, right? However, I’ve learnt that if I’m not honest with myself about my feelings, then I have no chance of resolving said feelings.

I guess thinking LO’s sweat smells amazing definitely counts as lust. Hahaha! But there seemed to be so much else going on as well – all the intense emotions, etc, the dream of being loved on some rarefied spiritual level. Is lust an emotion? Maybe lust can be an emotion. I hadn’t thought of that. Because so much of limerence takes place in our heads, the link with lust doesn’t always seem obvious.

Plus the paralysing shyness – that can make physical intimacy seem completely out of the question. Limerence feels exalted and “above sex” somehow. But to dream about someone constantly – oh, yes, indeed, how can that not be an (often troubling) form of lust?

I must also add (as I have received this argument a few times before) having compassion for someone who has done a bad thing is not the same as approving of what they have done or enabling them. You can be compassionate and set boundaries at the same time.

@Sammy This is a good debate on a subject close to my heart but I don’t feel I have expressed what I am getting at properly yet so will plough on, just in case anyone is listening 🙂
I understand and really appreciate your desire for a world where honourable behaviour is the norm, and everyone is altruistic…I really do. I wish it was that way too. But answer me this….Is it honourable to place unrealistic (and I would argue potentially mentally unhealthy) behavioural expectations on other people and then judge them as lacking or weak when they don’t live up to them? I am not saying you do this, just that this type of “selfish=bad, selfless=good” thinking often leads to judgemental behaviour in many people out there. You see I believe that having a high level of compassion for yourself, and allowing self interest to be important, is essential for good mental health. Add to that a faith that all people are mostly good and capable given the right environment. I also believe that people with high levels of self-compassion and self-acceptance are more tolerant and better at being deeply, non-judgementally empathic to others, even when others have not behaved ideally. So to me, it is having tolerance and compassion for yourself and others, not honour, that leads to a more peaceful world.
I guess I dream of a world where people feel a deep compassion for everyone, no matter what bad deeds they may have done…including for themselves.

Good for you Scharny for not introducing her and your wife. LO #2 was making a power play for sure.