It’s been a while since the last check in at the LwL virtual coffeehouse.
Normally, I’d kick things off with a topic for conversation, but this time, I’m just going to leave the discussion completely open.
Chat to your hearts’ content!
Here’s a cat contemplating his caffeine addiction.
I read someone talk about the “limmy awards” in other chat. I’m afraid I need to nominate myself for most spectacular relapse. No specific conversation details for you, but I recognize that my LE is an EA now. I’m not sure that my LO does.
I won’t be here again today until late. But I am interested in more perspective on what takes an LE into EA territory when it comes to the LO’s behavior.
I’m interested in how you made the distinction.
I’ve said things to my LO that I would never want my SO to know about, even before NC. It already was an EA then. I think my LO may be a party to multiple EA’s but other partners to those EA’s put up boundaries to end the EA, while I have done the opposite.
To Sapiens:
Oh, dear. I don’t have any insight on this. I must be one of the few here who is single, and my LO is also single.
Whatever I have had going on with LO would probably have been classified as EA, but I don’t know for sure, and it doesn’t matter anyway in my case.
On a lighter note, I think L.E. has to nominate you for that award.
I am angling for the Most Relapses In A Single Year award.
Go to the “Search the Site” box and type in “Emotional Affair.” It will return a bunch of hits.
Hi Norma,
Funny. I thought it was 50-50 but it’s not like I am keeping a database on this blog… No seriously, no DB, I just had that feeling. More new people who post are married and in more distress but I thought the ones who post the most regular besides Adam are mostly single. 🤷 There must be a survey in the archive somewhere. Curious but not enough to find out other than being spoon feed the info.
ND,
Because of the US Government shutdown, future funding for the Limerent Emeritus Foundation for Wayward Limerents is uncertain.
The Foundation, which has oversight of The Limmys, has decided to allow self-nomination for The Limmys. However, there is a $100 USD “processing fee” for each category under which the applicant wants to be considered.
To L.E.:
Well, I am blaming Trump for this one.
Hi Sapiens,
One more clarification, please.
It’s unclear to me if you are still NC but realized on reflection that the LE (for you at least) had really moved into an EA?
OR
You are no longer NC and the LE (again for you at least) has now moved into an EA? Thanks.
Not in NC anymore. I went into NC because I learned the term limerence while researching the line btw friendship and emotional affair several months ago. But NC stopped recently. I reached out first and the response was immediate. LO had missed me. Then LO reached out again, in the old pattern.
My LO knows how I feel, and that I’m not sure what I would do if LO made a move. All the power is in LO’s hands now. But… LO isn’t going to make a move.
When I am high on feels, I misread signals like crazy. “I missed you” becomes something much bigger than it really is. “I’m not sure I want a traditional relationship” becomes …open to non-traditional arrangement . But then, when I’m “sober” I see the truth in the words – LO is telling me it’s good that I don’t want to leave my SO because LO doesn’t want that from me anyway. LO is preoccupied with some other married friend who stopped texting even longer than I did. Then I think – how much more pathetic could I be?
I had the dim-witted idea that I would tell LO that the other married friend has put up defenses against an emotional affair, unlike me… I’d have phrased it softly and without blame. I instigated and LO barely reciprocated – except for expressing appreciation for the praise. And coming back for more – contacting me again and again. And missing it when it was gone. And telling me…
Sapiens means wise. Isn’t that funny now, in a way? At least I can laugh at myself as I get through each day, feeling pathetic.
Hi Sapiens,
I know you have a SO, you don’t want to leave the SO ( honestly you give mixed signals), you feel pathetic. Of course, you’re not pathetic. We may act pathetically, but we’re not pathetic. But what is making you feel pathetic in the LE situation, your feeling controlled by the LO, shame of the LE given you have a SO? Also can you describe your relationship with your SO?
What’s making me feel pathetic is that my LO is asking me to interpret the behavior of another married friend – could this one have the same feelings as I have? That is jealousy.
SO is a better life partner for me than LO ever could be. We aren’t physically affectionate outside the bedroom, but we are aligned on what we care about in life. And, I know this happens to others in LE’s, sex has been better – better than it’s been for 10 years – since I became so hot for my LO. My fantasy has an outlet, and SO is enjoying that, too. And yet it has not satisfied what is in my mind. A part of me just wants so badly to have someone new while my body is still good – in my prime. LO is my first choice in spite of big obstacles (mostly distance). I have been working with a therapist about this underlying issue.
„My LO knows how I feel, and that I’m not sure what I would do if LO made a move.“
Sorry not to have read every post- so you disclosed to her, or do you just assume she knows?
If you disclosed and she doesn’t reciprocate, but tells you stuff like „I missed you“just like that, I dislike that in her, I have to say. She should be more careful with the feelings you put into her hands, so to say.
I can absolutely relate to this
„ When I am high on feels, I misread signals like crazy.“
I remember misreading a text from LO2, my limerent mind changing a word to something like disclosure, and how I was so excited and exhilarated, until I (fortunately) read it again before answering and realized the real wording.
So stupid.
Before NC, my disclosure was just, when we meet next year, I know I am going to be very attracted to you. I know I am not innocent, but this was in response to LO’s direct question to me about what I find attractive during a flirty late night chat, after 6 months of such texting. My answer was: you! (More words.)
When I broke NC earlier this month, I made a much deeper disclosure about wanting to be with LO, in some way, even though I would not leave SO. This was after LO told me LO missed me, and LO was wondering if the NC was because there was something wrong with LO. LO even asked me this during the NC. During NC I just responded that there was nothing to improve. (It was not strict NC because I didn’t want to “be a dick.” I limited responses to one line texts on a 24-hour delay and no follow up.)
Hi Sapiens,
Sounds to me like disclosure or heavy flirting from your side and non-committing stuff that could be „friendship only“ from her side?
Were there answers to your very direct statements? I guess no, or more non-committing stuff.
She likes the attention, or she‘s politely evading your flirting because she appreciates you as a friend, either way I would stop right there.
You say you don’t want to leave SO, so maybe it’s a good thing LO isn’t reacting much on the disclosure, because it all sounds very risky to me.
Sorry if I‘m wrong but it sounds like if she would play along, you would be head over heels in a PA. I would think hard about if you really want that and if not, then maybe not leave it to her and fate, but decide yourself that you don’t want it?
Maybe I misjudge here completely, since I haven’t read all of your posts.
One can be swept away by the current of a text conversation and the heady stuff of „winning“ (getting reciprocation), but never lose the consequences out of sight.
Maybe I’m too gloomy today since weather is gloomy and I‘ve got a headache, so I do apologize if I sound way too alarmed and assuming.
To Mila and Sapiens:
Mila’s thoughts and conclusions to your situation are my own too. I’m a big believer of seeing things in a different perspective to gain insights. How would you feel if your SO filed for divorce tomorrow for whatever reason? Relieved by the freedom of a second chance at life OR going out of your mind to save your life partner, realizing you took her for granted during your LE? I don’t know the answer from what you’ve written.
Lastly, I think you have created ( it’s what the mind does and all limerents do. I did it so often.) this story where you have no control, it’s all in the hands of the LO, the SO is actually loving the increased sexual passion from you. So far so good and as Mila already said but I’ll say differently, it ain’t going to last. At least not very likely to.
Mila, I think you have me and my LE all figured out. Add to that: LO has not been lucky in love. SO is significantly better looking than LO – though LO is in better shape. I overlook that because I have wanted LO for so long. I think that LO knows this and doesn’t trust me to really act if there is an opportunity. Especially after my NC.
LO and I are both needy people who have an unhealthy interaction to get something missing from our daily life. There is a big obstacle to action, too, and that has made the flirtation safe. But I made it much less safe (for myself) in the past month.
To me, an EA is … let’s say you work together. You exchange numbers. Start texting. It gets quite personal. You share a lot. You’re texting daily. Multiple times a day. Maybe all day. Maybe it gets really flirty, really sexual. Essentially, what you would share and experience with your partner … that energy is going toward someone else. You’re each others’ go-to person if something goes wrong in your life. You’re leaning quite heavily on them and they on you. But it’s not physical.
That describes my interaction. Except it’s not multiple times a day. It’s more like 1-2 hour blocks, late at night. Over the summer, pre-NC, it was sometimes both nights of the weekend even when my SO was at home. It felt like dating by text. It was exhilarating.
But LO also asks me for advice on handling other “friendships” with married “friends” who stopped contact with LO abruptly. Hence my hypothesis about multiple EA’s. I wonder what drives LO to favor deepening friendships with friends who are already married.
Sapiens,
I would consider it, at least on your end, an EA.
I don’t know on her end. She could consider all of these guys friends. I was very naive before. I thought men could be close friends with a woman like a woman would be with her female friends. I think some can, but it’s rare.
” I wonder what drives LO to favor deepening friendships with friends who are already married.”
Attention. A built-in barrier so she doesn’t have to go “all in” or do more. They’re providing her with male energy while she waits for an available guy to show up ? Idk.
When I had my last big LO, I had some close guy friends. LO provided the … well … attraction jolt. The excitement. They provided me the support. But that’s me. (Yes, they knew about my feelings for my LO. I went to them for advice.)
“I wonder what drives LO to favor deepening friendships with friends who are already married.”
She probably knew you were with your SO during the weekend evening texting sessions (?)
You used the term in your own experience:- exhilaration; both exciting and illicit.
This and/or validation seeking due to insecurities (as in seeking your advice).
I think you maybe already know the answer to the question you posed here.
And maybe it would be better to focus on your own reflections of the reasons why you were secretly texting your LO for 1-2 hours on a weekend night with your SO sitting next to you.
I am not being judgemental in asking this. It’s just to try to help. I also have had to ask myself similar questions, but maybe not in this same scenario.
Hello Sapiens. Does look like an EA to me.
“I wonder what drives LO to favor deepening friendships with friends who are already married”.
With my LO, texting is minimal, and the meetings are also occasional.
I guess both of us are aware of the barriers, so that is probably why real and virtual contact is low.
Hi Sapiens,
If we take moralising out of the picture and just look at the psychology – there is undeniably a special type of thrill that can be got by doing something illicit, like the texting of your LO for 2 hour blocks on weekend nights. That same thrill can’t be replicated with an SO because it isn’t illicit.
The crashes that followed my similar ‘thrill seeking’ efforts were always spectacular. You’ve got to weigh the two up. There is no doubt it is difficult to nip this sort of ‘response to temptation’ behaviour in the bud (I really know it – I did off the charts bad things, like once spending the evening of Christmas day texting my LO for hours). But it can’t sustain for too long with an SO in the picture … and I think you know it. I wish you good luck with your renewed NC efforts.
This is how it happened for me. LO and I were coworkers of a sort and think it developed into an EA for a time. He got my number and began the texting but I continued it. I would text him late at night after my shift ended, usually to complain about something work related. Then he would respond in the mornings while he was rounding. I would be half asleep in the mornings waiting for his texts or he would call me while he was driving to his office after rounds. We had a lot of work conversations that turned personal quite often. Nothing sexual but usually personal. A friend/coworker we shared in common once called him on how much we texted and talked to each other and asked him if his wife knew about it. He didn’t have an answer for her.
Thank you to all who responded to my message yesterday. As I mentioned in my last response (to Hamlet), I am having trouble with reading too much into my LO’s messages. That indicates that there is a huge asymmetry in the EA – if it is one at all.
I think I will start NC again this week. This time LO will know why and probably will not contact me to find out what happened or if LO did something to upset me. It should be easier, in a way, for both of us.
In my opinion, the feelings have to be reciprocal and acted on in some fashion. An oblivious LO is not an EA.
„In my opinion, the feelings have to be reciprocal and acted on in some fashion.“
I also think that the word „affair“ implies that both are emotionally involved in the same way (in the way Marcia describes). If only one side is that much involved and the other one sees it only as friendship, can you still call it an EA? I genuinely don’t know , because the other side could be emotionally involved as much as the one who is aware of it, but not admit it to themselves.
Still, since this latter is something one can only guess at (and limerent guessing will always be biased and not objective), I’d say it‘s only an EA if both sides recognize that it‘s an EA.
I had this kind of friendship (texting for hours, text contact every day etc) with my XLO, definitely too much for partnered people, but even though I guess he was involved maybe even more than me, he never admitted it to himself or me, and I would never call it an EA, for me it’s still plain old limerent episode from my side and don’t-know-what from his side (unlike LaR, I lost interest in what it was for him)…
I am not in a good position to reply since I am not involved in this type of thing, but it seems to me that if a person is confiding in their LO rather than their SO, and something is being taken away from the marriage, that must qualify as at least some sort of EA?
Even if the LO is oblivious.
I don’t know. Perhaps Dr. Tom can clarify?
Mila,
“I would never call it an EA, for me it’s still plain old limerent episode from my side and don’t-know-what from his side”
And, honestly, you probably won’t ever know how the LO is feeling. I mean, you could ask. (“You” being the generic limerent.) But there’s no guarantee you’ll get an answer or an honest answer. I guess if the LO just offered the information without being prompted.
Hi Norma and Marcia,
I guess I’m just being a language stickler. I thought „affair“ implies a conscious engagement of both sides. But the definition doesn’t matter so much of course, because if that:
„ it seems to me that if a person is confiding in their LO rather than their SO, and something is being taken away from the marriage“ is the case, it’s time to stop and think, regardless if the other person is doing the same or not and regardless of the exact name one would give this kind of emotional dependency.
Marcia, exactly, and as I said, I lost interest in finding out whatever it meant to XLO, and I’m sure it‘s not clear to him either, so there‘s nothing to „find out“ really.
Mila,
I get Norma’s point. If you are putting a lot of energy and/or time into someone else, that could take away from a relationship with an SO.
But to me, “affair” implies some sort of heft. You’re sharing a lot with each other. You’re becoming dependent on each other.
You could have a decent amount of communication with someone. Doesn’t mean there’s much depth to it. And it doesn’t mean the other person has any dependence on you or is sharing much with you. Or they could be sharing a lot and think of you as a friend. Affair implies to me some sort of romantic interest on both sides.
I think limerents spend a lot of time trying to figure out how their LOs feel. I of course include myself in that category. But I think if it was that big of a deal to the LO, the limerent would know. The LO would tell them or make it clear. I think we limerents make this so much more complicated than it really is.
„ Affair implies to me some sort of romantic interest on both sides.“
That’s what I meant!
„ But I think if it was that big of a deal to the LO, the limerent would know. The LO would tell them or make it clear“
It’s not that easy though, especially when there are barriers, SOs. The LO could also be limerent and make a song and dance about every little gesture and be scared of disclosure. Unfortunately LOs are not always mature or handling the situation well, same as the limerents.
From the outside one thinks „what the hell, why don’t they just stop or talk about it“ but that’s the curse of limerence, no straight thinking or feeling.
Mila,
“It’s not that easy though, especially when there are barriers, SOs. The LO could also be limerent and make a song and dance about every little gesture and be scared of disclosure.”
I just don’t agree. At some point it’s going to bubble up. There’s going to be something in both the LO’s and limerent’s energies that allow that to come to fruition. I’m not sure any other way to put it.
If that doesn’t happen (and I’m making a sweeping statement here as I obviously can’t account for every situation) … the feelings aren’t strong enough, the LO doesn’t want you to know or it’s the limerent holding back. That happens as well.
Marcia,
but the limerent holding back doesn’t mean he isn’t limerent, ergo, the LO holding back doesn’t mean he isn’t limerent. It still means it could be mutual but you‘ll never know.
I think you overestimate the honesty of people a bit, or I‘m too sceptical (as I mentioned in another post, gloomy day today here)
Mila,
“but the limerent holding back doesn’t mean he isn’t limerent, ergo, the LO holding back doesn’t mean he isn’t limerent. It still means it could be mutual but you‘ll never know.”
I’ll use my last mini LO as an example. I realize you were already friends with your LO and already texting. But I had never communicated with him outside of work. And he randomly emailed me one day. Our short conversation was all very benign but it did get me wondering: Is he trying to open the door? I emailed him about a week or so later. And it started off friendly/jokey … but there was something in my reaching out again that let him know I was opening the door a touch more. And then he walked through it. Meaning, he disclosed his interest. My energy was open, his was, and he wanted to say something.
So if that’s not happening … one or both parties’ energies are blocked. And you can sometimes feel that. When the other party doesn’t want you go further. Or one or both parties don’t want to say anything. Or there aren’t feelings there to disclose. When I write “feelings,” I mean interest. I don’t necessarily mean some big, heavy declaration.
That looks like Marcia, Adam and myself sitting at that table on the left, in that top picture.
I wonder what we were discussing..
Surely wasn’t about limerence was it?? 😆😆
Just sip and gossip away your morning coffee ☕️ … and make efforts to kill all your LE….
Got to run to teach all day….
To Miss Snow:
I hope your day goes well.
Miss Norma,
Thank you! My day so far is really good! Dealing with young children is always so pleasant, they (4-9 yrs) are absolutely delicious.
I hope today brings you peace and joy! 💐
To Miss Snow:
I didn’t realize you taught such young people. I had assumed they were older.
A great opportunity to influence young minds!
Miss Norma,
This is a side weekend job, I love their rosy cheeks, cuteness, and curiosity… 😊
My week daytime work is with college.
🌺 to you!
To Miss Snow:
Thank you for the clarification. I had thought you taught college.
I admire your strength and energy.
To MJ:
Well, it definitely isn’t me. I am old enough to be those folks’ mother.
Plus I am rocking my dad’s crewcut from 1965.
All good ND.. I was just hoping my Lady Marcia would appreciate my noticing her.. I’m sure you look good just the way you are.
Besides my Brother Adam has exquisite taste in the opposite sex. He doesn’t take just anybody out for Lobster Bisque you know..
😉😁
To MJ:
Good to know. I appreciate the reassurance.
I cut all my hair off years ago when my kids got head lice.
I discovered that the G. I. Jane look agrees with me. Although I don’t look nearly as good as Demi Moore did in that movie.
Hamlet
I can’t find what thread you posted “Stand By Your Man” but these two songs conflict me from my own struggles and how my wife has stood by me despite alcohol and limerence.
A conversation I’ve had a lot with myself.
Drinkin’ Them Beers — Thompall Glasser
https://youtu.be/cHR5xFXZut0?si=Qii-bbX73Hx4NXE_
And my wife’s dedication to me.
I’ll Stand By You — The Pretenders
https://youtu.be/ABGPMw_ir08?si=r294EljESZjTIrXE
To Adam:
Allow me to contribute my own offering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcATvu5f9vE&list=RDXcATvu5f9vE&start_radio=1
Addicted to Love by Robert Palmer? The link sends me to a mix from YouTube. So not sure if that’s what you intended or YouTube is glitching on me. If so that is quite the limerent song and I remember it playing on the radio a lot in the 90’s. Tie your Dali shoes tight and we can go dancin’ to this pretty lady. 👍
Dear Adam:
My Salvador Dali shoes have no laces.
So they’re as tight as they’re ever going to be.
I think they’re fine for dancing.
As Ronnie Milsap would say “I wouldn’t have missed it for the world” young lady.
Adam,
“When are we going on our date? I feel like I’ve known you for 5 years and you’ve been asking me and ND out for 10 years. I don’t like talkers! 🙂
To Marcia:
I’ve only been here about eight months, so that can’t be right (?).
ND,
It was a joke. That he ‘s all talk and no action. 🙂
Well I guess Dame Marcia the day you’re not so damn overy and hotheaded. And probably cause I’m not gonna cut in front of my brother. And Miss Norma is a nicer to me so 🙄
*ornery* lol
I’ve been more than patient. You’ve been talking about this for weeks.
And I’ve encouraged you to cut in front of your brother … like 5 times.
I can see the family resemblance … with your pace.
Norma D … maybe we should go younger. Those guys might move faster. 🙂
To Marcia:
I am pretty slow myself.
Not sure I could handle anything too racy.
ND,
“I am pretty slow myself.”
I don’t know how much time I have left on the planet. I’m going to have to move on. 🙂
Miss Marcia
We are too stubborn for each other. You think I like em young, you want em young. Don’t be so damn stubborn with brother. He’s just pacing himself. Be glad he’s not trying to reserve a hotel room at first glance.
My Dear Norma
That’s what endears me to you.
Adam,
Quite the limerent song…but back in a simpler time before I knew limerency. Now I see limerents everywhere! The movie Ghost with Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze… total limerent metaphor. It’s a story of a limerent trying to go NC on her LO, and free herself from her LE so she can live and love again. The original movie script had the story take place completely in the limerent’s head but that would be seen as “crazy” by most of the viewing audience. How do you film something taking place in someone’s head? They personify the LO as a ghost and now you have a love story you can film.
Adam,
“Be glad he’s not trying to reserve a hotel room at first glance.”
At least that’s taking some action. 🙂
An offer was made … but it does have an expiration date. I can’t keep the goods on the market indefinitely. That’s tacky. 🙂
Dame Marcia you are too much.
How did I get brought into this? And what’s with an expiration date? Why is that tacky? Goods can stay good as long as you’re taking care of them.. 😆
Btw, I thought you’d like to know NewGirl is 42.
I told you I can go for the 40 somethings. Or is she still to young??
@Adam, thanks for helping me out up there. 👆🏻
MJ,
“How did I get brought into this?”
Because your brother, for some bizarre and misguided reason, seems to think you have “dibs.” Which you do not. I’m a free agent. I will take the best and most timely offer. 🙂
” And what’s with an expiration date? Why is that tacky? Goods can stay good as long as you’re taking care of them.. 😆”
You both waited too long. I’ve moved on.
For all of you lamenting the fact your LOs have a lot of spinning plates … can you not see why?
“Btw, I thought you’d like to know NewGirl is 42. I told you I can go for the 40 somethings. Or is she still to young??”
I’m not entertaining this conversation until you ask her out.
Brother
Dame Marcia is Lucille Ball and Miss Norma is Mary Poppins. Imma sleep cause booze …. Cause Miss Norma is a due for some oysters?
“Dame Marcia is Lucille Ball”
Adam
I was hoping she would be more the Eve Arden type, but Lucy is ok. I’m just not always a fan of redheads. 😆
“Because your brother, seems to think you have “dibs.” Which you do not.”
Marcia
Here I thought I was moving the needle with you Woman. Will I never learn? I still think its because he’s younger and married.. 😆
Who did you move on with? I thought your Old Man was keeping you company. I can’t keep up. You must keep a full rolodex. Must be nice. Wish I could just pick up someone at random and take them for coffee.
“I’m not entertaining this conversation until you ask her out.”
We’ve been working a lot and I have other challenges to work around. I was actually thinking of asking her for next weekend but I can’t be certain it will happen. She seems totally ok with the current arrangement but I’ll keep you posted.
To Adam:
No, Miss Norma is not due for any oysters.
No oysters. Ever.
MJ,
“I was hoping she would be more the Eve Arden type, but Lucy is ok.”
Eve Arden … the actress in “Mildred Pierce”? If so, I’m actually impressed.
“Here I thought I was moving the needle with you Woman.”
I have been VERY, VERY clear about what moves the needle with me.
“I still think its because he’s younger and married.. 😆”
He’s not young enough. 🙂
“Who did you move on with?”
No one, actually. I’d rather move on to nothing than wait for flim flam. 🙂
“Eve Arden … the actress in “Mildred Pierce”? If so, I’m actually impressed.”
Marcia
See? You think Ol MJ is just some blue collar Union redneck from the Midwest, that likes his blue eyed blondes, along with a Bud Light, some chips and some football on the boob tube, don’t you? 😆😆
Yes that Eve Arden. I love her. She also had a great show of her own called “Our Miss Brooks” Its hilarious. You should look it up. I’ll bet you also didn’t know she played the Principal at Rydell High in the movie “Grease”..
Yes that famous “Grease” movie from 1978..
We were 7.. 😉😆
MJ,
“See? You think Ol MJ is just some blue collar Union redneck from the Midwest, that likes his blue eyed blondes, along with a Bud Light, some chips and some football on the boob tube, don’t you? 😆😆”
No. I just kind of assumed you’d like a young Pamela Anderson or Megan Fox type. (Sigh, that I had to write “young” Megan Fox … because she’s under 40. But I know how you are.) Btw, I don’t have an issue with a blue collar man. A downtown dude. 🙂
“I’ll bet you also didn’t know she played the Principal at Rydell High in the movie “Grease”..”
I did know that.
She projects a kind of no-nonsense intelligence. Ok. You got a point for that one. 🙂 (Tbh, I wouldn’t have cared if you liked the vixen type. It’s still a more interesting choice :))
I actually met Eve Arden once at a doctor’s office.
She was elderly then.
She was charming.
This is to Adam:
Could you please clarify the Mary Poppins comment?
Also, not sure why you think I want oysters? I know they’re supposed to be a sexual stimulant. I certainly don’t need that, ugh.
Miss Norma
I mean it in that your are a nurturing soul like Mary Poppins was to the children in her care. Lucia Ball was a powder keg like Dame Marcia. Chaotic, unpredictable and fiery. While Mrs Adam is very much both, I don’t think I could handle Dame Marcia. She’s mean to me. But you’re nice to me. 😝 The oysters are just because I like them and didn’t know if you would too. Momma gets 🤮when she watches me eat oysters. She also not on board with me liking anchovies on my pizza.
To Adam:
I could probably watch you eat oysters without barfing, but I can’t guarantee it.
I like anchovies in a Caesar salad.
Thank you for the clarification on Mary Poppins. I hated that movie, but I do try to be kindly and nurturing.
“I don’t think I could handle Dame Marcia. She’s mean to me.”
Adam
She can be mean to me too but I think she does it out of love. I mean how can she not love poor poor Limerents like us? We need good, Feisty Women like her to get us in line and set us straight. 😂
MJ,
“She can be mean to me too but I think she does it out of love.”
More like frustration. 🙂
And you don’t have dibs. It’s my package. I get to be the one who determines who gets dibs. 🙂
“It’s my package”
Marcia
You said “package” 😆
(Laughing in Butthead style over here)
Good to see you’re in ownership mood tonight as I should’ve expected. Upon you seeing my name come up on comments and curious what I’m chatting to my Brother about.. 😆
“I just kind of assumed you’d like a young Pamela Anderson or Megan Fox type. (Sigh, that I had to write “young” Megan Fox)”
I figured you would take me for being that type. Actually Pamela Anderson has never done anything for me. About the same with Megan Fox. Even in her younger days. Although I did do a double take or three, when she had a few scenes in “Two and a half Men” from years ago. Have to admit, she looked pretty good in a bikini top..
MJ,
“Upon you seeing my name come up on comments and curious what I’m chatting to my Brother about.. 😆”
Of course. You know how nosy I am. 🙂
“I figured you would take me for being that type. ”
Actually, you’d earned major points with me if you’d have said a young Madonna in her early, slutty phase. 🙂 Seriously.
But Eve Arden is a good choice.
I’m going to tell you a little secret. My last big BO was a bit of a redneck. Didn’t see that coming, did you? 🙂
“Actually, you’d earned major points with me if you’d have said a young Madonna in her early, slutty phase.”
Marcia
There’s another one I never really into much. Probably because she was always older. I think I liked her for about 5 minutes. Which was about the time Material Girl came out. I remember liking that video with her and the guys all dressed up. That whole Like a Virgin phase, with her swinging around in a wedding dress was hot, but I still wasn’t all that into her and I think thats because I just wasn’t into her type of music.
I did however think “Crazy for You” was always nice. She was in her prime singing voice then and thats just a very thoughtfully arranged piece of music anyway. (Holy crap. Visionquest. What an ancient movie. Thanks for making me feel old and dirty 😆.)
The only song of hers I ever really really liked was “Justify my Love” (Probably because Lenny Kravitz wrote it and he’s awesome) It was a very sexy song and the video was pretty hot too, if I remember right.
“My last big BO was a bit of a redneck. Didn’t see that coming, did you? 🙂”
Well since my only idea of you is Jeannine Garafolo, no I can’t really see that working out. Although I don’t know. Maybe you would look good in a pickup truck. 😂 (NewGirl drives a Big Ford F-150 Raptor and she hardly comes off redneck-y..)
I have no room to talk. I used to own a big 4×4 Ram and I hardly consider myself redneck, so pardon the correlation.
MJ,
“Probably because she was always older.”
So a woman in her mid-20s was too old for you, even then? The music stars I liked when I was a teenager were in their mid-20s or so. Those guys seemed exciting and dangerous. They were grown men.
“That whole Like a Virgin phase, with her swinging around in a wedding dress was hot, but I still wasn’t all that into her and I think thats because I just wasn’t into her type of music.”
Because you were too busy listening to Twisted Sister ? 🙂
“Thanks for making me feel old and dirty 😆”
Don’t you feel like that all the time, without me having to prompt you? 🙂
“It was a very sexy song and the video was pretty hot too, if I remember right.”
I like that song, too. She looks great in the video but that was after she lost weight and worked herself into looking like a machine. I think she looked better in the very early days, with just a little more jiggle. 🙂
“Well since my only idea of you is Jeannine Garafolo, no I can’t really see that working out. ”
That’s another woman I approve of. She’s attractive and very funny.
Ah … but that’s why I liked him. We were so different.
“she hardly comes off redneck-y..”
I don’t think of redneck as an insult. As long as it’s who someone authentically is.
“So a woman in her mid-20s was too old for you, even then?”
Marcia
Not really, I was probably just more focused on my nerdy-ness back then and inability to relate to the opposite sex. Go figure. Not much has changed.(My middle school crush was actually 2 years older than me).
When it came to older Women in music, I had a big crush on Susanna Hoffs from the Bangles. Then somewhat for Belinda Carlisle from the Go-Gos. Also Sheena Easton (Think I mentioned that to L.E. in another post, lol) I even crushed on Kim Carnes at one point because I liked her blonde hair and something about her raspy voice on Bette Davis Eyes was freakin hot.. (And do you now begin to see why I became a freaky limerent? 😂)
Twisted Sister, (what is that? Lmfao!!) yes I had that album. Didn’t every Boy in 8th grade? And Quiet Riot? (Had a few of theirs too) They really weren’t my favs though. I was listening more to AC/DC (pre and post Bon Scott), Pink Floyd and Rush. Those were more my go-tos in my collection.
“Don’t you feel like that all the time, without me having to prompt you? 🙂”
I do.. 😆
(What is this turning into? A wedding?)
“That’s another woman I approve of. She’s attractive and very funny.”
Well I’m glad my tastes have garnered your approval. I like her style and kinda low-key vibe, while still being hilarious. If you like it a little more raunchy, look up Brittany Schmitt on YouTube. I find her super attractive and funny too.
(I just wonder what happens now, when/if you don’t approve.. 😆)
MJ,
“My middle school crush was actually 2 years older than me.”
I had crushes on boys my age, too. But the adult male rock stars were just hot.
“When it came to older Women in music, I had a big crush on Susanna Hoffs from the Bangles. Then somewhat for Belinda Carlisle from the Go-Gos. Also Sheena Easton (Think I mentioned that to L.E. in another post, lol) I even crushed on Kim Carnes at one point because I liked her blonde hair and something about her raspy voice on Bette Davis Eyes was freakin hot…”
Those aren’t bad choices.
“Twisted Sister, (what is that? Lmfao!!) yes I had that album. Didn’t every Boy in 8th grade? And Quiet Riot? (Had a few of theirs too) They really weren’t my favs though. I was listening more to AC/DC (pre and post Bon Scott), Pink Floyd and Rush. Those were more my go-tos in my collection”
Outside of Pink Floyd and Rush, the others are pretty juvenile. Doesn’t mean I don’t like them. 🙂
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Motley Crue. 🙂 Your musical taste reminds me of one of the album reviews Rob Reiner reads to the members of Spinal Tap about their work. “The musical growth rate of this band cannot even be charted. They are treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry.” Have you seen “This is Spinal Tap?” It’s funny.
“(What is this turning into? A wedding?)”
Huh?
“Well I’m glad my tastes have garnered your approval. ”
There really aren’t any women you could name I wouldn’t approve of. Now, there are some you could name who would reveal to me you were super boring. 🙂 But so far you haven’t done that.
Yeah well Pink Floyd is on a whole new level (yet to be achieved by anyone) of white guys with guitars. Grouping them with “rock & roll” or “hair bands” is insulting. As someone who grew up in the 80’s and 90’s with rap, R&B, soul and jazz, all that “white boy” music had no appeal to me. I was 18 before I heard Aerosmith and Slayer (yeah I know polar opposites in “rock”) for the first time and was totally unimpressed. By my early 20’s a co-worker loaned me his Wish You Were Here Pink Floyd CD and I realized what I was missing and tried to get more open to such kinds of music. And while I like some of it, like AC/DC, no one has reached Pink Floyd’s level. They are in a class of their own.
Now if you will excuse me, youtube is playing one of my favorite Barry Manilow songs ….
Adam, good songs. I guess copying that link put up the biopic Tammy and George on my wife’s Amazon Roku feed. My wife had never heard of George Jones but of course knew the song Stand by Your Man. She watched the movie last night. 5 minutes in she’s telling me that George Jones is a horrible person. 😂 But she did watch it all. I’ve loved country music pretty much all my life. The Opry stars but really my heart is with The Outlaws, especially Willie Nelson, and then Johnny Cash who was kinda on his own. I love almost every type of music but I occasionally play some favorites or an album of country these days.
Hamlet
That’s funny cause I’d never heard that song before so I asked my wife if she knew it. She said “yes. Do you know who she’s talking about?” I said no and then she told me the whole story. Only song of his I like much is He Stopped Loving Her Today. I’m a yankee married to a southerner that was born a stone throw from the Canadian border in Minnesota and am now in the Deep South. I’ve just started listening to country music here recently. I think Conway Twitty is fastly becoming my favorite. Though some “modern” singers like Ty Herndon, Hunter Hayes and Terri Clarke I like a lot too. Okay okay I like watching Terri Clark sing too. Fine I’ll admit it. What man wouldn’t like her to be their Dirty Girl. 😏
Adam,
I didn’t bring up that song because I figured if you did know it, you probably cried every time you hear it and I didn’t want to bring up such thoughts for you. If you didn’t know it, doing so would be like introducing cocaine to Len Bias on draft day. 🤔😄 I’d be shocked if you don’t have it in your will to play that song at your own funeral.
I do like the mixture of rap and country, Nelly and Lil Nas X. Yeah…I’m not into the young female singers like you. 😂 I like popular songs often sung by young women, couldn’t tell you who sings them 90% of the time, but my days of watching MTv music videos and knowing all the artists are long long past for me.
Hamlet
While I was born in Minnesota when my material grandfather died we moved to St Louis. So I grew up with rap/R&B/soul/jazz. I have my favorites like Biggie, A Tribe Call Quest, Boogiemonsters, Getto Boys, P Diddy and Too Short. My poor YouTube algorithm can’t keep up with me going from Da Brat to Conway Twitty to Air Supply. 😂 I took me a long while to listen to country music. But have no fear I’m not like my brother is with Christina Carpenter as I am with Terri Clarke. That woman is now in her 50’s and looks better than me approaching my 50’s myself. I’d take Sigourney Weaver on a date the same I would our own Miss Norma.
“But have no fear I’m not like my brother is with Christina Carpenter as I am with Terri Clarke.”
Adam
Christina Carpenter?? 😂
Small correction my Friend. Her name is Sabrina and she’s almost as beautiful as LO. (Notice I said “almost as” because she’s not. 😆)(A whole lot of similarities though. 🥰)
I know you really don’t care. Just wanted to bring
this to your attention. Because I know if I didn’t, my Boo Marcia, would call you on it and make fun of you again..
That silly Marcia. I don’t know what I’m gonna do with her sometimes.. 😆
(Btw, I am calling dibs 🤣)
My bad brother, yes Sabrina Carpenter. I watched a short on youtube of an interview of hers where the interviewer asked if people asked if she is related to The Carpenters. She said she does get asked it a lot, but no, but that she does like their music. She seems like a genuinely sweet girl. Very polite and always smiling. I don’t think I have ever listened to her music, but I am sure she is talented in her genre. Maybe I will get to trying her music out, as I have been trying to spread my musical wings a little more in my old age. Here lately I am on a country kick.
I’m not sure if I love her style of music, but she does have a few tracks that really highlight the pretty voice she has. She was also pretty good on SNL a few weeks ago and looked even better prancing around in that “Manchild” number she performed live.
Not gonna lie, her and LO are very similar in features but LO is not as shapely as Sabrina..
Or perhaps I should just write, LO is shapely in her own unique way, different from Sabrina..
Ok, well thats enough ruminating for this chat.. 😆
I’ll still pick LO over Sabrina every time..
🥰😂
No topic is given, yet I open it up and there are already 20 comments. This is a chatty bunch! 🙂
To Serial Limerent:
Help! I’m talking and I can’t shut up!
29 comments now! 😉
Hello all. Nice to see everyone here. As I mentioned sometime back, I have also had sort of a relapse. The LE embers were ignited back. The reciprocation from LO really led to my feeling down afterwards, though we had a great interaction, our warmest yet.
As very interestingly mentioned by Mila in an earlier post, the previous highs and lows have been replaced by either very short highs followed by longer lows, or in some case, pretty much zero high, and long low.
For now, I am just pushing on through, and hoping to feel better soon. As mentioned by another LwL friend, I am trying to take this as a blip, rather than a full on setback. Hopefully, NC and passage of time will work to make things better. They always do.
Mentally, this has been the toughest thing that I have experienced, but I am determined to move on.
Have a great weekend, all!
Hi ABCD,
„Hopefully, NC and passage of time will work to make things better. They always do.“
I wish you the best, it‘ll get better soon.
Is NC easy to maintain in your case?
Thanks Mila. I am feeling better now.
NC happens for 1-2 months at a stretch. Full NC is not happening, so I just try to ride out each interaction.
I was hoping to reach a state when the interactions do not bring me down as much. Have not gotten there yet, maybe in the future.
I just started listening to an interview with Anthony Hopkins and the story he told of his second epiphany really connected with my own LE story. The details, timeline, everything actually between Anthony Hopkins story and my own are totally different but the same epiphany or clarity of resolve is what ties our stories together. That clear resolution is ultimately what led to me overcoming the LE. The resolve is just the beginning though. The mechanics and work to actually change are a whole other story. That’s where the resources here, therapy, self reflection, peyote shaman rituals in Arizona, whatever all play a role. But it all has to start with the resolve to be a different better person than you are today so that you can have the types of healthy relationships that make you and those you are involved with happy. Anyway…. the story of his second epiphany starts at 3:50: https://youtu.be/1mbe4F3YBqw?si=X2uzRisbdaubHkO8. Aside: I came right here after hearing that epiphany in the interview and haven’t listened to the rest. I really hope that he doesn’t change course in the rest of the interview. 🤷🤔😂
I’ve hit 11 months of NC on my end. I haven’t initiated any texts, calls, or interacted with him on social media. He did text me happy birthday and called once in those 11 months but I didn’t interact more than was polite, so I still count it NC on my end. In the past any of that would have had me giving in to the desire to go back to old habits of frequent texting and calls. I still miss our conversations and still have the impulse to share random things with him but I’ve continued to resist the impulse. I think the longer I’m NC on my end he’ll eventually forget about me won’t pursue any more contact on his end. Counting down the days till I make it 1 year.
I wish you continued resolve. I broke NC because I thought I could not bear to lose touch with my LO forever.
In retrospect, I wish I had called a Limerence Emergency Hotline instead.
1-800-GLIMMER, what is your emergency?
To Sapiens:
What a wonderful idea! I like the way you think.
Sapiens,
“1-800-GLIMMER, what is your emergency?”
It’s the song “Operator” by Atlantic Star. 1984. One of the best years for music.
Operator, this is an emergency
Operator
Baby, don’t hang up on me
Midnight Star …
Thank you for your comments today.
To Lost Girl:
Wow. Eleven months. I can’t even hit eleven weeks.
I can’t even hit four weeks.
Oh, well, at least there’s that Limmy Award to look forward to.
Lost Girl,
Great to see you here and read your update. Good for you to staying resolved to NC despite the temptations.
I recognise also the random ( and relevant ) things you mentioned that prompts the urge to connect. It’s very difficult not to reach out when there is a genuine connection.
We both came here to LwL around the same time a long time ago now !
I’m around 6 months NC now, mostly due to circumstances changing (not me being stronger).
Year end ( Christmas/ New Year holidays ) will be the next main challenge in the contact challenge I guess.
Best wishes
„ Year end ( Christmas/ New Year holidays ) will be the next main challenge in the contact challenge I guess.“
That reminds me of frederico. Hope he‘s ok!
Who was the first to wish happy holidays or happy new year in the last years, you or LO?
I would advise not to think of it now. It‘s still two months, and things/attitudes/states of mind can change a lot, so better not waste time now on resolutions or plans.
Hi Mila, but now you asked the question. Ha ha !
Yes, I am trying not to think about it yet. Much to do before then in every avenue of life.
Ah dear frederico ! I also hope he is doing ok and in a happy place. Such a lovely person.
I also wonder on Nisor too and latest from Lost in Space and some others too.
Hi Imho,
sorry, I know, I wasn’t helpful😂
But I mean it- no matter what virtuous or risky plan you might make now, it‘ll look different in a few weeks, so why bother now.
Yes, I wonder sometimes about old LwLers too. Sometimes they suddenly surface again. I like to think that they found peace of mind and distance from old pain and worries that might have brought them to this site.
I do hope that Frederico takes holidays to the seaside from time to time and buys flowers from friendly Adonisses (this plural sounds completely wrong).
I also imagine frederico in new smart clothes at a fancy hotel on the riviera.
I would be happy to initiate sending Christmas greetings to him without overthinking it.
„I would be happy to initiate sending Christmas greetings to him without overthinking it.“
Me too, like I send 😘to you. Isn’t it funny how we don’t hesitate with virtual strangers, but with LOs we count every word if it’s too much..
Sorry to butt in but I was downing a quick Espresso at the next table and overheard your girls chat.
“Isn’t it funny how we don’t hesitate with virtual strangers…”
It’s weird. I’d say people here are far from strangers to one another (you two are a good example) because we share information at a level of intimacy and importance to us, that we don’t with basically anyone in real life. And yet any of us could walk past each other in the street today and be none the wiser.
“…but with LOs we count every word if it’s too much.”
That’s because every word with an LO *is* too much in terms of consequences in our thinking.
Imho, I understand why the decision about holiday greetings carries risks … because almost all responses you could get in turn carry (different) risks?!
Hi LaR,
just saw your response that came in while I was writing my latest rant..
Yes, it‘s true that we understand and know each other better in some areas than many of our friends in real life, don’t we. Do you think that’s only possible because our lives don’t touch otherwise and nothing else interferes the understanding? Or would we click on real life too?
So if you all really already want to talk about holiday greetings😂, of course every kind of response needs to be prepared for, meaning that the response shouldn’t be important. If LO doesn’t respond one should be prepared for it without disappointment, if they suddenly gush back with loads of emotional stuff, one should be prepared how to deal with it. Also, one should be prepared that even if we don’t send anything, LO might, or might not.
Me, I advised against deciding too soon because in the past I made virtuous resolutions of NC and not sending anything, only to realize in the last moment that what would make me feel good and free would be to send a non- special nice text like to everyone else. I just realized that when the time came, so all the virtuous resolution-time was wasted energy. Just saying…
Well done, Lost Girl! I know there is a huge temptation to reach out to LO to share stuff, as you said. Kudos for not giving in to it, it takes a lot of will power.
Mila, ha! And I was also having a ramble back to Sapiens, at the very same time you were, about how to attempt to unpack an LE into a worthwhile friendship! (Another lap round the endless 🐌🛖). I was busy last weekend and missed most of that chat, so I thought I’d throw my oar in late.
“Do you think that’s only possible because our lives don’t touch … or would we click on real life too?”
Hard to say. I think there are never guarantees that people who only know each other online would click in real life. And yet, and yet … if I find myself drawn to / talking to certain posters more than others, then there are reasons for that on both sides – and it would increases the chances of clicking with those people versus with those we don’t engage with as much.
There are certain yardsticks like … does the person get my humour and tone? Do they get when I’m having a good day or a bad day, and that what I write changes depending on that, and they can be Ok with it? Those are all good signs for being able to click, and I’d say apply collectively too.
Imho,
I think Mila makes a great point in her response to me, worth you listening to … that all the planning and resolving in the world could well be pointlessly wasted energy, because it ends up being overriden in the moment by what we instinctively feel is ‘right’ … so your efforts are better directed at preparing to be Ok with different kinds of response, or no response, etc etc, than trying to second-guess what you’ll feel like doing in 2 months time.
Hi LaR,
You are always welcome to pull up a chair at the girls table.
Thanks for the advice which is sound. I am trying not to think about it or plan anything, but you guys keep talking about it 😉!
I once dreamt you and I were on a bus together and somehow it came out in the conversation that we knew each other from here. 🚜 😂
And I have,in my head, relayed to Mila in person my entire LE story, with all the details. I guess it’s because I haven’t verbally told anyone out loud and it needed an outlet. (In hindsight , maybe I should have gone to a therapist, just to offload if nothing else).
I think we would get on IRL for the reasons you outline, but who knows for sure. Mila’s voice and accent will not match what I have created in my head, that much I know😀
„ Mila’s voice and accent will not match what I have created in my head, that much I know😀“
Ha, yes! I still haven’t managed to listen to that android phone‘s voice you assigned to me. You would probably be appalled at my real accent! I can write better than talk in English.
I would love to hear your LE story though. Without wanting to brag, people like to offload to me. But they complain too that I never tell them my own worries. I think I could offload to you or LaR since I already know you would react with care and empathy. Sigh! Let’s meet in your dreams on the bus again. Or on LaRs tractor. Although that might be too noisy.
To Lost Girl:
Please consider doing something special for yourself when you hit that one-year mark.
I got a little help from ChatGPT on where to go from here with my LO/friend. It ended with the following mantra:
“Connection is not the same as temptation. We can choose the kind that protects what we value.”
I know that NC is the best medicine for Limerents. But … my LO has been important to me for more than 25 years. Even though we have not been in touch continuously over that time.
When I saw LO checking me out on social media 5 years ago, it was like seeing my favorite star in the sky again after not seeing it for 15 years. That may say something terrible about the state of my marriage. I don’t know. My children are like sunlight to me. My SO is like the moon – waxing and waning but there for me, close, night after night. My LO is a distant star that captivates me, unreachable, and fortunately far away. I don’t want to lose touch for another 15 years. But I also want to be responsible, and a good model for my children.
To Sapiens:
I am intrigued by your comment about ChatGPT.
I am not sure what that first sentence means, “Connection is not the same as temptation.”
I am not above asking ChatGPT for help, but I am too scared to go look for myself.
Besides, if I am going to get responses that I don’t quite understand, that is not going to be helpful.
Sapiens,
Beautifully written, the astronomical theme!
We instinctively know what we want and should do – maintain a connection and friendship with this special person without anything inappropriate.
Chat GPT can tell us that we have a choice and that there is a difference between connection and temptation.
But we are human, and our crazy visceral attraction drivers are not logical and are difficult to switch off, as we know.
I guess it’s the question if you/one can honestly handle the continued connection without the yearning ?
And if you don’t want to go full NC, which I can understand, what is your plan and new rules of engagement to not compromise your values, your commitments or your mental health.
You don’t need to answer this here of course.
It will be hard, but that is the transformation of limerence into love: doing what is truly best for all persons involved, because not only two people have stakes.
I will see if I have it in me… The temptation is difficult, but I feel (partially) like I got the validation I wanted already. I got and I gave it. Time to move on from this dangerous place. We truly care for each other. In some ways that makes it more dangerous, but it also reinforces moral clarity.
More cynically, I also benefit from the long distance. Each decision point of consequence takes a few months, not a few days – let alone a few minutes.
ChatGPT is quite the moralist. It’s a good influence on me. Neither judgmental nor complicit. A real stand up AI.
Hello Imho and Sapiens. What you both said resonates a lot with me. LO and I do share a limited, but continued connection, and I try to not make too much out of it – sometimes I am successful, and sometimes I am not. The urge to pursue this is so strong at time, have been fighting with it for a long time.
Ideal situation of course would be to have the connection, without the longing, as you said.
Similar to Sapiens, both of us have also got validation from each other. Don’t know if it makes it harder or easier.
Hi Sapiens, Imho, ABCD,
„We instinctively know what we want and should do – maintain a connection and friendship with this special person without anything inappropriate.“
„ I know that NC is the best medicine for Limerents. But … my LO has been important to me for more than 25 years“
„ Ideal situation of course would be to have the connection, without the longing, as you said.“
These are my repetitive thoughts of the last years, as many of you know.
I‘m just not sure if that is possible in the way we wish.
I‘m still friends with LO2, but only because he moved away and we have very sparse but warm contact.
I‘m still friends with LO3, but it’s not the kind of friendship I wanted to keep while fighting limerence. The kind of warm special friendship I thought I had and wanted to keep turned out to be an illusion, mostly created by limerence.
We still had a nice friendship back then, but bow I’m not ready (yet?)for a complete return to warmth and ease, and not sure I will ever be.
I waver between reasons for that. Sometimes I think it’s because he really is an emotionally more stunted, more egotistical person than I thought and I just finally got it – sometimes I think it‘s because me, I‘m not yet able to be relaxed with him and cannot have an easygoing friendship again, so I should accept that and write this friendship off, at least for a while.
I had recently adopted the last reason because it felt right to say it’s all on me, I should face defeat and just accept that this person is off my friend list because I cannot do it, no fault of his, only mine- pity for him and me, but that’s that.
But he continues texting in a way that makes me consider the first reason again (him just not being the person I could have that sort of connection with that I thought I had).
Probably it’s a bit of both, I guess.
What I want to say by my rant:
My main goal was to keep the connection without the longing, just like you.
But it wasn’t that black and white- turn the limerence off and keep the unchanged other stuff.
Once limerence faded, the whole picture changed, and there were wounds or scars and self-protective habits that I trained onto myself while fighting limerence etc.
First, this „special connection“ had never been the one I thought I had while limerent (limerence enhancing everything to „special“), and then the whole feeling of friendship or connection changed throughout the process.
As I said, not as easy as „switch one off and keep the other“. All is connected and one changing will change the other, at least in my last LE.
Sapiens,
You said you’d known LO 25 years. You don’t have to answer any/all of this (obviously), but have you been limerent (for this same LO) previously during that time? Or is that only in this last 5 years? And have either or both of you ever disclosed feelings?
“We truly care for each other. In some ways that makes it more dangerous, but it also reinforces moral clarity.”
Both sides of this (brilliantly said) point capture stuff I’ve expressed repeatedly here about my LE too. I was friends with my LO for a decade before she glimmered for me. This makes me feel there is definitely a relationship worth protecting under the limerence, and think it has always reinforced my resolve (possibly hers as well) not to act rashly or to disclose. Sometimes I think I am telling myself stories to rationalise it, but more of me thinks it is actually true that there is a bond worth protecting.
My interpretation of what you mean by the ‘more dangerous’ side … that the fact you genuinely care about each other makes it harder to sever the tie??
If I was being devil’s advocate to you, I’d say ‘wouldn’t severing the tie be the kindest thing you could do for each other, long term?’. I don’t know if I could carry that through (haven’t had the chance to try even if I wanted to). I did it with a previous LO and it proved the right decision for me, but I was so much less emotionally invested that time.
The other thing in what you’ve said that rings alarm bells is how your LO is doing the same thing with other married people and trying to get your advice on it. This tells me that either LO is trying to steer your relationship towards friendship, or that you are being triangulated in what looks like a pattern of behaviour for LO.
No, the dangerous part is that there is true mutual affection, and attraction. LO has told me how great I am, just not in the way I wanted in the moment, before. I’m sad right now but committed to recalibrating for goodness instead of danger. If LO lets me. LO has not run from my feelings yet, even though we both know they are not actionable. Only I’ve run from that. I need to grow up. And not running is how I’m going to do that, this time. Even if if hurts.
A bit of sentimentality here — 💭
On Saturday, I brought my last bag of old clothes for that second hand shop, to get rid of it (after sitting near my door for over three weeks) and to check out the flowery LEG and his bf. The handsome BF said hello to me (as to every customer) with a recognizing look, I could not care less!
This time they took two pieces of dresses — the black flapper dress was still with a label, and the dark orange one patterned with cherries/black dots and a wide black rim (looking like a piece of painting) was with me for over 1 or 1.5 decade(?) Everyone thought it was an interesting piece.
I’m not a hoarder, trust me; However, I would not trade anything in the world with a thick, dark-orange, wool winter coat, two sizes larger, my father bought me when I was 14. I complained at the time it was too big, he said, “there was no smaller size, but the quality is so good. You can wear it when you get fat in the future.” I never grew fat enough to fit in the coat…
When I went back to fetch the bag, LEG received me. He said they decided to take the two pieces and I could leave the rest of them for charity or take them home. As he was getting paper work done and get some cash for me, I all of sudden became sentimental about the orange, sleeveless, cotton dress, that I wore in many occasions, including once having lunch with ET in a park…
I wanted to take it back really badly, but worried that LEG would “laugh at” at my indecision, and I knew I would not wear it again (it makes me look rounder/fat). But I stood there staring at that dress in the basket — it felt like I was selling my childhood broken doll or safety blanket!
Meanwhile, I got more time to check out on LEG with the clearer eyes: he had a bright orange loose sweater on with a very pink fluffy brim around the low cut collar. He was wearing a pair of delicate, golden brimmed glasses (near-sighted) that covered his long eyelashes. 😞 He still looked so deliciously girlish like a chilled cheery from icebox! 😋 But his skinny legs looked even skinner this time in his skinny jeans — there was no muscles in the butt or thighs whatsoever! 😏
On the way home, I was thinking why the longer something is used, the more values it grows? And why values of a marriage/long-term relationship seem to be reduced once it settles down or is secured? and even get more devalued over time❓In any situations, we human beings are more valuable/important than our belongings, right?
Why Some people tend to gaze at a faraway Star (LO), instead of focusing on the Sun (SO) and Moons (children) under their nose? Why one tends to desire “there”, and when they get “there”, it soon becomes “here” again; Then more “there” somewhere else to get to…. Is this our biology or psychology?
I understand DrL’s video about habituation and could not help wonder: is habitualizing process our human nature or culture❓ Some grownups still keep their broken dolls in the attic, or put their memories in their journals or published books….
To Miss Snow:
I can so identify with your sentimentality over clothing.
Except with me, it was my children’s outgrown items which I sold to a second-hand store.
I would get very emotional about their stuff.
I saved a few of my favorite pieces, and I avoid looking at them, for fear I will break down sobbing.
Miss Norma,
I don’t get sentimental with my personal stuff that is 10 or 15 years younger or only have practical functions. The longer they were with me, the harder for me to get rid of them. They become the “museum” pieces of my life.
I can certainly understand your tears over your favorite pieces of your children’s clothes. For stuff (clothes, books) that could bring me some memories of “pains”, I sell or donate them.
Out of sight, out of mind — NC with our old belongings!
To Miss Snow:
That is very practical, and I have tried to do that with some things.
I also had a hard time parting with items that belonged to my parents. I kept a few things. It was hard to get rid of some items, but I do feel better once I got over the pain of losing them.
I think I can monologue a little bit in the coffee house… ☕️
Confession: my curious eyes unintentionally ran into my own posts of August 2023, and was taken by surprises — couldn’t believe I said what I had said 😳!
A couple of thoughts emerged:
1. With only reading of one thread, I did’t get that cringe sensation as I had expected (didn’t dare to read any of my old posts until this morning). I feel glad that my core values haven’t changed that much. However, during my xLE, I downplayed them, underestimated them, and felt so unassured about them; I wanted LO’s validation of them. That (original) insecurity buried underneath my lifetime Longing blocked my LE eyes from seeing even my own essence….
My point: during LE, we limerents often subconsciously feel unnecessary insecure and didn’t self-respect our own solid values. We want so much or insatiable validation from our LO (God knows amount of insecurities in them!) — their approvals of us in whatever aspects, that we lose our insight to who we truly were/are. It’s unfortunate/sad to me 😞
Since my xLE, even in visceral level, is totally gone, I may sound harshly logical, but please bear with my one-penny thought here: limerents here (general) SOUND quite insecure/fearful, while you have much more deep within (buried under your visceral LE), which could bring you much self-confidence or make you more proud of yourself, regardless of what LO or rest of the world would think! I just wish you could turn your eyes inward to truly see your own valuable essence.
2. During my xLE, I was so foggy headed and affected by LE that I was not only unable to see/value my own selves, but so ignorant of what was going on around me. I could not hear/see the rest of the world even in their rosy colors with sweet melodies… My moods, more than often irritated or melancholy, were “controlled” by the “perceived life” in my LE domain.
My point: while still in LE, one cannot trust one’s lightly or heavily LE-coated/lensed sentimentality, even if it’s lasted 2 or 3 decades long. I know it’s easy said than done; but perhaps one can let one’s logical mind to remind oneself so?
Wish you all more joyful holidays!
Clip of the Day:
https://youtu.be/dYZp7dZ0cdw?si=4lyYjKqPfMQT1Xmn – Kung Fu
👩🦰 🏃,
An excellent Kong Fu clip! Thanks.
It’s so true that there are certain truths that cannot be expressed through limited language (doesn’t matter what language) and our imperfect understanding that was, is, and will be “undulated”(affected) by our personal, limited experiences and new learnings.
Using 5-blind men touching elephant fable, each of our touch could sense one part of the elephant, not the whole. But if communicating with other 4 blind men, we could learn and understand (indirectly) their truths, on an intellectual level, not visceral one.
We limerents perceive the 🎀 elephant — LE, from all angles, thus we experience this 🐘 differently. Yet the journey of self discovery, recovery, and renewal, out of the 🐘 spell, is universal. Honesty with oneself, particularly root(s) of one’s fear/insecurity, is MUST 💪 . Stoics go further in attempts to remove the root(s).
******
Another word/conception also popped into my mind this morning — Intuition.
Jung says that “Intuition is perception via the unconscious.” And “Intuition does not denote something contrary to reason, but something outside of the province of reason.”
To me, the Unconscious contain’s one’s entire history from birth, whatever was experienced from the past, repressed in the past, and sensed/thought in the present. While in LE, our perception is “contaminated” by LE lens, with no or little logic but often delusional/illusive perceptions. (I hear someone would argue that LE is outside of the province of reason)
I wonder whether one’s intuition during and after LE would be the same towards the same matter. Can one trust one’s strong “intuition” during LE?
I don’t have clear answers to this question, which only lodged in my head this morning (after reading a bit of my own posts). I know in the past whenever I ignored my strong intuitions, 99% of which I made mistakes, small or big regrettable ones…. Can I trust my post-LE intuition more?
To Miss Snow:
I hesitate to reply, since I know you can run rings around me.
Please keep in mind that I am of only average intelligence, and have some brain damage that prevents me from processing things accurately at times.
Having said that–I don’t think that being in LE and having good intuition are mutually exclusive.
I do think you can trust your post-LE intuition more. But it has not been my experience that being in LE makes a person unable to reason properly.
You know enough of my story to know that I struggle daily with my longing to reach out to LO and am constantly battling the urge to contact him.
Just this morning, I was leaving the supermarket, and a car came out of nowhere, right at me. I was able to jump back in time, but the car hit my shopping cart and sent it flying.
I was shaken up, but obviously physically unhurt. I wanted to contact LO, and I wanted him to comfort me. But I know he is incapable of comforting me, or perhaps just unwilling.
Regardless, it’s a fool’s errand. Even though I am in the throes of LE, I know this. My LE does not cloud my judgment.
So instead I contacted a girlfriend who actually HAS been hit by a car (thankfully not severely), and she gave me the kindly support I needed in that moment.
Miss 🏠 Norma,
“I hesitate to reply, since I know you can run rings around me.”
As long as you do NOT talk about your LO or anything related to him, I’m fine.
“Having said that–I don’t think that being in LE and having good intuition are mutually exclusive.”
I disagree! Totally out of my xLE, I can compare for myself. You cannot yet, as long as you’re still in the throe or even at edge of your LE.
“I do think you can trust your post-LE intuition more. “
Definitely agree❗️ During LE, one’s intuitions were/are repressed down to the Unconscious by that dominantly LE mentality. I only learned about this after I came out of LE; With my current peace and sustained joys, intuitions are resurfacing, luckily.
“But it has not been my experience that being in LE makes a person unable to reason properly.”
I’m sorry to say that when one is in the middle of a thick fog, a limerent is the last person to “reason” properly. By DrL’s definition, LE is an alter state of mind, and every reasoning or decision made in it is questionable.
“You know enough of my story to know that I struggle daily with my longing to reach out to LO and am constantly battling the urge to contact him.”
Many limerents here are doing LC or NC, but I haven’t seen you try it enough with Dr L’s methods, particularly considering you two are not co-workers.
“Just this morning, I was leaving the supermarket, and a car came out of nowhere, right at me. I was able to jump back in time, but the car hit my shopping cart and sent it flying.”
Sorry for your incident. Your attention and focus have been diluted by your LE and your willpower weakened. if you don’t make more efforts to recover your mind, more incidents could occur.
“I was shaken up, but obviously physically unhurt. I wanted to contact LO, and I wanted him to comfort me. But I know he is incapable of comforting me, or perhaps just unwilling.”
I do NOT want to comment anything related to your LO, PERIOD❗️
“Regardless, it’s a fool’s errand. Even though I am in the throes of LE, I know this. My LE does not cloud my judgment.”
I disagree. Clouded judgment affects not just you alone, but most of limerents here, no matter which LE stage they are in.
“So instead I contacted a girlfriend who actually HAS been hit by a car (thankfully not severely), and she gave me the kindly support I needed in that moment.”
That’s very wise to reach your girlfriend, cherish her and your friendship every single day!
Do take a good care of yourself and Happy Holidays!
Hi Norma,
sorry you had that scaring incident. I had two incidents with cars in the past (on the bike), in both the drivers were at fault (suddenly shooting into my priority lane, or opening the car door just when I passed), and although nothing happened apart from falling from the bike , they shook me quite a bit.
I hope the driver apologized to you!
To Mila:
Thank you for your concern. Yes, she apologized, and a bystander also stopped to help.
I didn’t really need any help, but I was grateful for the kindness.
Well, well! If I don’t monologue a bit of my reality, you might be thinking I was floating in the high cloud play chess or something… 😀 Truthfully, I did want to observe how a LE recovered mind works, at least my mind, and how the LwL knowledge and Stoicism could work with a renewed mind….
a LE related matter —
Yesterday I finally “pushed” that Lim pet away. After succeeding in “ignoring” him entirely last week, he agreed to officially withdraw before the deadline. All official steps (an alert was sent campus wide) was taken. The kid promised he’d make up all missed assignment, but none was handed in since the day one of this semester. Meanwhile, he’s a TA for another subject for. He just sat there, with dreamy eyes or slimy smiles or lingered staring, trying to catch my attention, which has to be attentive, enthusiastic, and encouraging, which might have served as “crumbs”.
📣 Who wants to be a LO? I’ll trade my identity with you! I was so repelled, annoyed, relieved, and now sorry for him *sigh* 😮💨. Only through LwL, I understand his mind and feel sympathetic. By the rule, I could neither be stern to him, nor directly talk with him about the matter in any fashion, which has probably made his LE linger or worse (over 14 months now)— the Downfall of non-communication between LO and his/her limerent!
He’s wasted his time and some tuition for the 2nd time. However, I do believe and hope he can recover soon; my TA told me he’s sociable and he lives with his girlfriend and daughter (showed the picture to the whole class).
a Non-LE matter —
Yesterday another scary incident: due to schedule conflict I could not take Mom to her PT for the 2nd time. For the first time, I showed her in person how to get there and return home — 4 short blocks from a small subway station (with one line, single direction only) to the office without any turns, she assured me that she could read street numbers and remember it.
I mentioned that all her life she’s “paranoid” or highly anxious despite she was a surgeon herself; she simply relied on Dad or me for ALL logistical matters. The night before yesterday, she unusually woke up at 2am and never went back to sleep worrying she’d get lost going to PT office on her own. Highly anxious, she got off one station earlier and just walked, walked despite the environment was totally new/strange to her. She got lost about 2km away on the same street.
There is an idiom in COO: bad lucks never walk alone, which never failed to be proven true — her text system was not working when it’s absolutely needed! She didn’t call me worrying to disturb my teaching. After learning her “missing” from PT office (they called me), I called her but her panicked mind could not hear 244 clearly and “insisted” it was “214”. She said she could not move any further due to her physical exhaustion. Unable to speak English, she could neither call a cab nor ask people in the street to direct her.
By then, I realized that my GPS also wasn’t working to locate her so my favorite PT office receptionist, (her first name is Princess), could not pick up Mom— Stuff in this PT office are always extraordinarily nice and helpful! I was about 10-15 km away with my hair standing up (no hair standing emoji yet 🙄), a few minutes before I entered my classroom!
By a miracle, she did wander/lost back to a major subway station with multiple lines. I instructed her over the phone and left the matter to God’s hand — she could find the right direction to get home. She DID! When I saw her later, she did admit that her paranoid and panic actually made her to forget all the directions. I got a “heart attack” afterwards!
Guess what can clam a highly agitated mind or save one from a post “heart attack?” — reading Poetry! Words, words, words, fancy words run with elusive meanings and no concrete actions, which made Wittgenstein to pull his hair out and Shakespeare to lament — Ah, a poet, “half a man, half a mad”….
The morning news is over… I got to practice my ESL a little bit 🥴 Thanks for listening. 😀
Just want to reveal one LO’s mentality here —
If asked whether I felt flattered or my ego boosted by this unwanted LE affection (by a handsome Kid-dad), my answer is 🆎 NO! Not a bit! I was so annoyed most of the time.
Speaking only for myself, in a romance matter, one couldn’t care less about what others think of you, unless s/he is your BP — beloved person. I don’t think this piece of mindset would ever disappear in me until my death bed.
Moreover, if you’re a true Stoic, who cares about others’ criticism or praises (only BP excluded)⁉️ Then those (covert insecure) people-pleasers’ compliments/affirmation become annoying, too, and “comic”. Why do they think everyone else, who are vastly different from them inside out, needs or wants their superficial, patronizing praises⁉️
Well, continuous learning about humanity in all its colors, cultivating self-confidence and Stoic traits, in my opinion, is a major KEY to promote our mental health and attractiveness — in both men and women.
Typo:
“Moreover, if you’re a true Stoic, you would not care about others’ either criticism or praises (only BP excluded)⁉️ “
“Not care” here means one does not desire/crave for others’ praises and validations, but appreciate them if given.
For other’s criticism or invalidation, one does listen to them for their possible merits; if true, one corrects mistakes and makes effort to correct and improve. If untrue, just smile and move on.
Snow, what if you are single and don’t know who your BP is yet? Not my situation but just asking.
Sapiens,
I may not know who my BP is, and I am positive who is NOT.
Glimmer of a high degree doesn’t guarantee a BP,; if it’s one-way street, one needs to pull oneself out; otherwise, s/he slips into limerent.
“Beloved” and “belimrented” are different.
Sapiens,
“what if you are single and don’t know who your BP is yet”
I think I misunderstood your meaning when I rushed an answer one minute before beginning a class last night. You were asking whether one would be Stoic (not “caring about” others’ criticism or praises) when BP is not insight, right?
My answer would be the same, and it’s easier to be since everyone else is in the same bracket. The big challenge lies on what one would do/be when deal with one’s BP. Based on my reading, it seems that only two Stoic could be BP to each other and possibly make their relationship work, and that if one of them is not or much less, then there would be not even a possibility.
If a limerent could be just a quarter of Stoic, s/he would not even fall into limerence (crush, yes). For a limerent to become just a half Stoic, s/he needs to climb to the Mountain Everest, which is not impossible.
Being Stoic and stoic are not the same. One could be wise, loving, and humorous Stoic; my model is still Marcus Aurelius (not very humorous like my Dad, but Dad liked showing off without craving/desiring admiration/validation…). Yet, Aurelius was supposedly the loneliest person in the whole world despite he was an Emperor, because no one else could TRULY understand him (he had a virtuous wife) and be his friend.
My biggest “downfall” was impatience — unStoic, which brought me a lot of misunderstands (thus erroneous reactions) in ESL, situations, and people, possibly for days if not for months or years. I so need to cultivate the virtue of all cultures — patience.
Just found a serious typo:
“which has to be professionally attentive, enthusiastic, and encouraging to alls students present in my classrooms, which might have unintentionally served as “crumbs”. “
Hi Speedwagon, I hope you’re doing well.
I was thinking about your LE and wondering if some elements have changed. I hope you don’t mind my questions. Please only answer what you feel comfortable sharing and if you want to say something like, “That’s none of your business, Lovisa.” I would understand.
Are you still experiencing distress when exposed to your LO? Do you still feel jealous of her SO? The last time we spoke, I had the impression that you feel resentment towards your LO because of the way her presence disrupts your emotions. Would you say that you feel resentment toward your LO?
I’m just curious.
Hi Lovisa, thank-you for thinking and wondering about me. I only check in here every couple weeks now so I am glad I happened to see your message. I hope you are doing well?
My LE has been up and down these past 6 months. Back in the spring my LE was as quiet as it had ever been. I felt pretty good, less rumination and overall desire for LO but then like a limerent idiot I am that caused me to let my guard down and I started engaging her more and more. This led to a flair up over the summer where I really hit some low points again. I have since come out of that through some very strict LC and am back in a quieter phase now. And this time I am not going to make the mistake of engaging with her personally.
As of the moment LO and I have what feels like an estranged relationship. I pretty much avoid her and she avoids me other than what is needed for professional purposes. It does feel a bit awkward to me because it is not my natural personality to be purposefully distant from someone, especially someone I coexist with a good chunk of time. But that is how it is and how it needs to be to stabilize my emotions.
There are a lot of people here who talk about maintaining friendships with their LO because their LO are good people and they enjoy their company. That is not me. My LO is a good person but she is poison to me. If I enjoy her company that just escalates my romantic desire for her. I don’t want to be in that cycle of escalating feelings and constant disappointment and let down. I don’t function well that way. As her manager my only obligation is to provide a good professional setting for her, nothing more, and I stick to that.
Ultimately, I would love to see LO exit my life, but I just don’t think that is going to happen. For a while I had a lot of anger and resentment towards her, but those emotions are debilitating too so I have learned to release that anger.
For now things are OK and I am managing well enough and life outside of LO with SO and my family are really good.
Thanks for the update, Speedwagon! Your situation is rough. I wondered if time healed your LE, but it sounds like your LE goes dormant enough that you let your guard down and then the LE flares up again. I wonder if you are incapable of ever having a normal relationship with your LO. Maybe none of us really can.
I’m not triggered by my LO2, but I suspect that he is triggered by me. We have brief conversations every few months. It feels like he is holding back. It doesn’t bother me. I’m just grateful that we got through this weird chapter without losing the ability to interact with each other. The friend group that we share is important to both of us and I wouldn’t want to avoid the whole group just because I might run into LO2.
About a month and a half ago, my LO3 went NC. He told me that he caught himself focusing more on me than his wife and he thinks it’s best not to have contact with me while he strengthens his marriage. I miss talking to him, but I’m glad that he is working on his marriage. I didn’t even know they were struggling.
Things are going great with my SO! We ran a 50-mile ultramarathon together. It was wonderful! I was nervous going in because at my last 50-miler my motivation to move forward was that each step brought me closer to my SO who was waiting at the finish line. This time I couldn’t use him to motivate myself because he would be with me. It was fine. This time wasn’t nearly as hard as last time. I didn’t need extra motivation, finishing was enough. I loved sharing this experience with my SO.
I’m still trying to figure out male/female friendships. I think they’re good and important, but if one person gets relationship ideas then it gets weird. I have to be careful. Now that I know about limerence, I never want to trigger those feelings in anyone.
Have a great week!
Lovisa,
“About a month and a half ago, my LO3 went NC. He told me that he caught himself focusing more on me than his wife and he thinks it’s best not to have contact with me while he strengthens his marriage. ”
I really like the way he handled this.
“I’m still trying to figure out male/female friendships.”
Befriend guys you’re not attracted to. Seriously. (You can’t control how the other party feels, of course. )
“Befriend guys you’re not attracted to. Seriously. (You can’t control how the other party feels, of course. )”
You can’t but it can still be misleading. Especially if they’re slow and stubborn like me and love wafting in the fantasy.
MJ,
“You can’t but it can still be misleading. Especially if they’re slow and stubborn like me and love wafting in the fantasy.”
If you’re in fantasy land, it’s because you put yourself there. Or you’re letting yourself stay there.
I told you about my male friend. He told me how he felt (just a few weeks into the friendship, although earlier would have been better), I told I didn’t feel the same way … and after a few weeks of awkwardness, we’re friends again. Direct communication. Works best.
He won’t post on here wondering how I’m feeling … because he actually asked. 🙂
Marcia
I get that and its true I stay in this place because the idea of things keeps me hopeful. Like you, LF basically told me she didnt feel the same way either. Things got awkward between us for a few weeks and then they got better. Like dramatically way better. In a way it was always very deceiving because we seemed to get each others playful ways and jokes. Not even always being inappropriate either. Except maybe I was hoping she might be in for something more because I knew what was going on with her and the married guy. Maybe I just wanted in on some of the action too. After all, they were just fwbs, right? Like maybe I just had to say or do the right things and then maybe I could be in on the fun.
This is some of the drawback I now have with NewGirl. Things are good between us. We’re txting a lot more. I’m also pretty sure we’re going to go out soon, but its a different kind of excitement overall. I don’t even know if excitement is a word I’d use to describe it. Its just nice.. And nice in a way where nothing is being forced or manipulated. I’m not going ape-s#!+ nuts to have to be around or see her. I really have no agenda, other than to let the chips fall wherever they may with this one.
I think both of us like each other but are in no hurry to get to each other. If that makes any sense.
MJ,
” Like you, LF basically told me she didn’t feel the same way either. ”
She didn’t “basically” tell you. She did tell you. Way back, months ago, when she gave you a vague, non-committal answer to hanging out. If a woman is interested, she wants to spend time with you. Like today. Or tomorrow. She’s excited to see you.
If have written this before, and … um … you’re not hearing me. So I’ll say it again. 🙂 If you are interested in a woman in a romantic/sexual way, ask her out right away. The day you meet her. Or a couple of days later. If you have sexual feelings for her, OWN them. I’m not saying you have to try to get her into bed immediately. You can take your time getting to know her. You can tell her once you get on the first date you want to take your time and get to know her. I think that would be a nice thing to hear, actually. But make it clear you want to date her. You don’t want to be “just friends.” (And this is my pet peeve with guys who use your slow approach. It’s a bait and switch. You DON’T want to be just friends. At no time is friendship your only agenda.) And if, after asking her out, she doesn’t say a clear and unequivocal yes and show up on that date in a reasonable frame (I’d say within a week or two, tops — meaning she’s not canceling a bunch of times and taking several weeks to show up on the date) … it’s a no.
And then if you get a no, you can determine if you want to hang around for friendship. Maybe you even discuss it. Can we still be friends? I had that actual conversation with my male friend. He disclosed feelings, I said I don’t feel the same, and we discussed if we could still be friends. (Do you know how nice it is to be able to directly communicate with someone? Not that it was an easy conversation. It wasn’t. It was very awkward. But I’m glad we had it.) And now we’re texting and occasionally meeting up. It’s not quite what it was before his disclosure in terms of amount of communication, but I didn’t really expect it to be. And I’m glad we’re still friends as I value him as friend. But “friends” to me, at least, does not mean an FWB. Friends means … I’m not attracted to you. An FWB would never happen with my male friends. That’s why they’re friends.
“Things got awkward between us for a few weeks and then they got better. Like dramatically way better. In a way it was always very deceiving because we seemed to get each others playful ways and jokes.”
So .. you friendzoned yourself. You hung around after you first started talking, and when you finally asked her to do something, you didn’t accept her non-committal answer as a no. And then you still hung around, hoping things would change. Then you told her something personal … I’m assuming you thought that would move the needle (I’m onto you :)) … and the opposite happened. This time you got a very clear no. And she imploded the friendship.
And you pulled away, but you’re still hoping something will happen. I don’t think it’s going to. Don’t hang around someone who’s let you know it’s just a friendship if you can’t accept it’s just a friendship. I don’t know if I could do it. If I was really into someone.
“This is some of the drawback I now have with NewGirl. Things are good between us. We’re texting a lot more. I’m also pretty sure we’re going to go out soon, but its a different kind of excitement overall. I don’t even know if excitement is a word I’d use to describe it. Its just nice.. And nice in a way where nothing is being forced or manipulated. I’m not going ape-s#!+ nuts to have to be around or see her. I really have no agenda, other than to let the chips fall wherever they may with this one.”
You’re doing the same thing with this one.
Now, she actually said yes to meeting up, which is good, but you’re taking way too long to get up on the horse and go on that date. You’re not signaling you’re that interested.
Marcia
Its really not a matter of not being interested. The problem is she has 2 kids that seem to take priority.
(Like why wouldn’t they?)
I’m kinda on the fence about it but its not a deal breaker. Originally I thought she had just the one Son, but now I hear theres a Daughter too. I prefer if she not had them but her Ex kinda seems like a douche, so I don’t even know how often she has them or what custody issues are like for her. I don’t really talk to her about them much. I respect her for going the single Mom route, but I really am kind of turned off with the whole instant family thing, should things increase between us.
I also have my Father that requires extreme care to work around. I have to have caretaking arrangements made if I’m planning weekend events and lately, I’ve also been working some weekends too, so time constraints are an issue for me. That doesn’t mean I haven’t forgotten or trying to signal disinterest to her. I have two households to manage and take care of. As of late, I’m not ready to have her over to my place just yet in case things should go that route. Its been hard to make time for anything when so much of my time is spent at Dads. My home is hardly in bad condition, but its not ready for a Lady to come visit either. (No I don’t have to dismantle my LO altar either 😆)
You never get a second chance to make a first impression and I at least want that in my favor if something goes down and she wants to come over.
MJ,
“I really am kind of turned off with the whole instant family thing, should things increase between us.”
Um … don’t you have children, too?
“My home is hardly in bad condition, but its not ready for a Lady to come visit either. ”
Why does she have to come over your house? It’s just dinner, right?
It just sounds like a bunch of excuses and that you’re not interested in dating right now. (Thus, you never spoke to your LO.) That’s ok. I’m not pressing you to date if you don’t want to. It’s up to you.
I read this somewhere and I think it’s very true: Female desire is attuned to male desire. If you asked me to dinner and weeks had gone by and all you’d done was text … you get where I’m going with this.
“It just sounds like a bunch of excuses and that you’re not interested in dating right now. (Thus, you never spoke to your LO.) That’s ok. I’m not pressing you to date if you don’t want to. It’s up to you.”
Marcia
From the get-go this person flat out told me to be in no hurry to take her out. I never asked why or wtf? I accepted it full well knowing the challenges I have to work around. This is the cross I bear and I’m really not trying to blow her off. I do kinda like her.
At some point I will post about a date and surprise you. Guess I’m just hesitant because of the unexpected. I’m not opposed to things going well. I really think they will.
Yes I do have kids and its that whole idea of things actually working out and families meeting and just all that long term stuff I think about, can feel overwhelming at times. Like both LO and LF not having kids was a huge draw. Still is, so that whole will I or won’t I blend in well with their kids gets avoided.
Its just where I’m at. Yes it is an excuse. A poor one at best but its where I am.
Thank you for taking time to always get back to me. I know we like to have our fun jabbing each other often but you do give me a lot to think about. I make mental notes and I do appreciate it. Please do not ever think I don’t.
MJ,
I’m going to come down with the Dame on this one.
It feels way too early to worry about merging your families, when what you need to do for now is grab that coffee you always want, or the discussed pizza, and see how the two of you click in that setting. Try not to let maybes in the future get above opportunities now.
Because by doing that, you could end up never reaching those future points. I had a friend who used to cut off first dates because she couldn’t sit there at that initial point and imagine the guy as father of her children. She was getting ahead of herself.
What you don’t want (if you are interested in dating her), is NG friendzoning you. Like Marcia says there is a limited time window before friendzoning occurs. The way you talk about NG now reminds me of how you talked nearer the start about LF. I know that didn’t work out how you hoped by playing the slow game, so why not take the plunge this time?
Just my views, and expressed because I really want you to have a better outcome this time, not to criticise.
MJ,
I want to chip in here (if that’s an expression,sorry if not)- remember how you said you would love to have a coffee with someone? So quit thinking about merging families or whatever, don’t overthink , just ask her out for a coffee and a walk, enjoy the time and that’s that! Everything else is thinking way too much ahead.
Come on, just do it, it’s not a big thing really- just ask a nice person if she would fancy a coffee tomorrow. Everything else is stuff of the far future.
Wouldn’t it be nice just to have an hour of relaxed chat and a coffee with someone you get along with? It’s nothing more.
MJ,
“From the get-go this person flat out told me to be in no hurry to take her out. I never asked why or wtf?”
I would not have asked why. That would have been awkward, and she doesn’t really owe you an explanation.
“I do kinda like her.”
You kinda like? She said to be in no rush? What here is drawing you in?
“At some point I will post about a date and surprise you. Guess I’m just hesitant because of the unexpected.”
What would be unexpected?
“Yes I do have kids and its that whole idea of things actually working out and families meeting and just all that long term stuff I think about”
No, I meant that if you have kids, you can’t hold it against someone else who does, too. But it’s too early to worry about the merging of families.
“Thank you for taking time to always get back to me. I know we like to have our fun jabbing each other often but you do give me a lot to think about. I make mental notes and I do appreciate it. Please do not ever think I don’t.”
I appreciate that. You know I like to razz you but I do hope you find someone nice to go out with.
I don’t know what kind of stuff you’re texting each other. Anything juicy? Spicy? Sexy? Very personal about your lives? Or is it basic conversation ?
If you want to get your feet wet in terms of dating again and have a coffee date with someone, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking her out. But I would keep my expectations low for this. And in terms of future babes 🙂 … don’t you want to date someone who’s a little more excited about you? I want that for you.
LaR, Mila, Marcia,
Thank you all for your responses. You are wise to suggest I take more critical action here. Seeing somebody actually sitting across from me, actually drinking coffee would be like a dream come true. I have wanted that for quite awhile. I think some of this apprehension is me trying to wrap my brain around something possibly happening here. Because in a way, this is what feels like normal relationship blossoming. I’m so used to being in some limerent, hyper-fazed, gotta have her like yesterday mentality. I mean with LO, I would have stopped traffic and with LF, I would have jumped over the moon. Its like those 2 were must-haves and this new person comes along and just shows up without any bells or whistles. Making me question, is something real about to finally jump off? Isn’t healthy relationship just that? Relating to a person and not being so over the top for them? I feel like this is where I am.
I know I keep coming back to this, but the situation with my Father is really quite ugly at times and its one that I don’t really like bringing others in on. Because it can feel and actually be so very overwhelming at times. I know it isn’t mandatory I bring this Woman in on that situation in the next 60 seconds. Its just a part of me that has to be dealt with, and it comes with a responsibility to own it. I’m not wild about always having to tell this person, I’m probably not going to be as available as I would to be, because that situation is so up and down.
These are the kinds of things I miss about having a Wife. Because I know exactly how she would be today in helping me deal with these things. Sometimes thats just a very hard pill for me to swallow, having to basically do a lot of this by myself. I remember and know exactly how she would be today, if she were still actually my Wife. I get that I shouldn’t keep pissing and moaning about that, but its more regret for being a buffoon of a Husband.
MJ
“I think some of this apprehension is me trying to wrap my brain around something possibly happening here.”
That feels like a good realisation to come to with yourself.
“I know it isn’t mandatory I bring this Woman in on that situation in the next 60 seconds. Its just a part of me that has to be dealt with”
I pick up from your posts how much time and headspace the care situation with your Dad takes up. If there is a way it doesn’t have to block your dating prospects totally though, try to find it. And you are right that nobody you date has to be brought in on it any hurry. Nearly everyone in midlife has ‘stuff’ going on. Anyone worth their salt will know to expect it with people that enter their lives.
Speedwagon,
Good to hear your update though not all the circumstances – your LE is surely a candidate for the “most stubborn to shift” Limmy award. I’m glad to hear you are back in calmer waters now. Blips are a usual part of the process but you sound like you know what to do to stay on track most of the time.
“I don’t want to be in that cycle of escalating feelings and constant disappointment and let down.”
Even the group of us on here you mentioned who do want to hold on to some sort of friendship with (x)LOs are highly vulnerable to that cycle. I’ve talked at length to others in the “want to be friends” group and not one person has found it easy or got to the other side with both of these conditions met: 1. truly out of limerence, 2. with the friendship quite as they hoped it would be. I’m concluding it is nearly impossible. Even Lovisa (👋), who I thought was the LwL dead cert for managing it, has just surprised me in her reply to you about her LO3 going NC.
Maybe it is easier with the position you have, that this kind of ‘friendship’ just can’t happen!
Good to hear from you again Speed. Doesn’t sound like its all roses there and it probably isn’t supposed to be. Glad you’re doing well otherwise.
I feel your situation is very comparable to my situation with my LF from work. Also a very estranged situation. Our communication has primarily been about work, but has drifted off into topics other than work a few times, but it always feels awkward and very guarded on her part. Like you, I would typically enjoy being more open, easy-going and fun around her because thats how it once was between us. To even attempt to kid around or joke with her now feels like a gamble. Since she flat out told me NOT to get too friendly, staying in my lane is all I can do. What’s irritating is I still catch her staring at me and this seems to still be a thing between us that never gets talked about. Like her eyes are telling me something. Then I get angry at myself for going over to talk to her, thinking I might say something that could change her perspective of me again. When all that is, is just me in love with the fantasy and things never go like I hope they will. Because she remains so indifferent and even cold around me now. I guess I don’t ever call her on the eye contact because I feel like if I do, she’ll stop doing it and deep down I kinda don’t want her to stop.
Its maddening the way she makes me feel interiorly. I had some intense anger and resentment towards her after our fallout but it didn’t last long. Like you I have to co-exist with her at work and its simply a lot easier on my psyche if I keep her at bay.
Yes, I don’t think my LE will ever completely go away as long as I have to coexist with LO and interact with her. But I have learned how to quiet it down quite a bit and hope to maintain it at a quiet level. I am fairly convinced that if LO exited my life it would dissolve fairly quickly.
Not being friends, even just chit chatty work friends, is easy because she avoids me as much as I avoid her. She has never been much of a proactive person socially anyway, but I do think she is also proactively avoiding me because she knows I am proactively avoiding her. But even the times last spring where I was engaging with her she was very limited in her reciprocation back to me. It just never works out how I want it to so it is not worth pursuing. And I think she is OK with it all even seeing me act very friendly with other office people and not her. I don’t get the sense she is bothered by it. To be honest, we also really don’t have much in common either. And being her boss does give me the out to just be her boss and nothing more. Plus, I find being grey rock with helps me feel more in control of things which psychologically is important.
Lovisa, so happy you found something you and SO can bond over. Great work on the 50 mile runs. Sounds awful…lol. My SO and I are newly empty nesters and are also finding activities to share and enjoying spending time with one another sans kids.
LAR, every limerent has their own decision to make about friendship. For me it just doesn’t work but also my situation was easy. I was never friends with LO before the glimmer anyway. You have friendship history and that is tough. But ultimately I do believe that friendship is a constant LE IV drip so as long as one can manage.
MJ, yes work dynamics are so tricky. I really hope you find peace and enjoyment there in the midst of one LO and one difficult LF. I agree that you have to release the anger. It’s my least favorite emotion in all this. When I feel myself swirling in it I simply repeat to myself “release the anger” and it usually helps.
I’ll try to check in another 6 months from now to give an update.
Good to hear from you, Speedwagon and Lovisa!
It’s a tough situation for you, Speedwagon, but for me it sounds as if you handle it very maturely and admirably, and maybe it‘ll all cease to matter slowly in a few months/ years.
I think I only manage to be some sort of friends with XLOs when they left town and my immediate work environment.
Like Speedwagon, I have to work with my LO1, but contact is reduced to a minimum, more from my side than his, but since it was mutual and disclosed, it’s easy to be very LC because we both don’t want to risk anything anymore. Like with my last LO, I had been limerent for a person that doesn’t exist, and only after limerence I saw the real person (and that’s someone I don’t want to be friends with).
I think I blathered enough about current XLO and how I perceived him wrongly and now have difficulties to maintain warm contact.
Only LO2 seems to be the person and friend he‘s been all the time, but then it’s LC because of distance, and I’m sure there would be more problems if he would have stayed as my colleague.
So, LaR, you were my hope that someone manages to keep the warm special friendship he‘s had before. Would you say there‘s no hope anymore?
Lovisa, I‘m in awe at your athletic feats. Gosh.
Mila,
“So, LaR, you were my hope that someone manages to keep the warm special friendship he‘s had before. Would you say there‘s no hope anymore?”
No, I wouldn’t say that – there is still hope for friendships, but with some unknowns about the nature and strength of it. On the surface, we get along much as we ever did, just somewhat (mutually) cooled down, and it mostly doesn’t feel triggering to me now. We have exist as co-workers *a lot* of the time, so that probably helps – there is no skirting around it, and it really threatened my work productivity when I tried more avoidance. The level of exposure I have is quite rare among the several limerents who write on here and might have to see their LO once a month or so. It is most days. But that’s a different question from that of the long term friendship prospects, I guess.
Once we (plural) start to climb out of being limerent, we naturally reassess what we want the friendship to be, and what it can realistically be. We dial down expectations a bit. That’s not proving too bad for me, and it isn’t dialled down to no friendship expectations, just lowered ones. But – there is still the issue you and I have discussed before … that the parts of my life that LO is in, are totally separate from the parts SO is in. I became good at compartmentalisation (guilty), but that isn’t likely to hold for the long term now my exec brain has more control back. And it is still too soon in my recovery and recalibration to try and change that part.
I will keep you posted Mila. I appreciate you not giving up hope on it!
Hi LaR,
ok, so I gather that you are still a bit in the woods (if there’s „out of the woods“, there must be inside of the woods too, no?)since you cannot yet imagine mixing LO and SO world.
Maybe you don’t have to, maybe it’s easier to simmer everything down to mere friendship without the added stress of mixing your compartments, and once it‘s simmered down it ceases to matter if they mix?
The question might be if what made the friendship seem special and precious was simply this, that it was completely in a SOfree world and something only for you alone?
(I have no idea, just throwing it out there.)
Me, I had a longish phone call from XLO and now feel bad afterwards. I wasn’t prepared and my first reaction when I saw who was calling, trained by months of vilifying XLO, was aversion. It would have been better to call him back later with some resolve to be normal and nice, but my kids already said „look, … is calling“ so I had to answer.
I mentally criticized him during the whole call and he was showing his worst sides too (talking only about himself and his woes, not asking how I am etc, complaining about money (he‘s got enough)). In the end I got really annoyed (he was talking simultaneously to someone in the background and me at length) and ended the conversation on a curt note. Then I felt bad, because I did it again, I didn’t detach but judged him, instead of just leaving him be how he is. I can do that very well with other people, but not (yet or any more, that’s the question) with him.
I don’t like the person I become with him at the moment. I get judgy and a bit mean. I think he might show his worse sides too because he feels that I’m being like that- not sure about that though.
Basically it’s like it’s always been – if I don’t initiate good mood, if I’m not proactive and forthcoming, he won’t initiate anything either.
Same old, same old.
It’s just like I said to Imho, onyx, ABCD: I feel worst afterwards about my own behavior, not about LOs behavior.
I still haven’t managed to let go completely of this friendship or to completely cease to expect stuff he cannot give, or even to decide if I want this friendship at all if he cannot give this stuff.
Sometimes I think I managed to not care any more, but then I get these moments of regret after contact.
I will see him soonish in his area of the country- not sure how that will play out.
So that was my update on „keeping friendship after limerence“- doesn’t look too good…
Hi Mila,
I’m annoyed for you to hear that you’ve had another lap of the snailhouse, but maybe these laps are just necessary, as you are not firm yet on whether you want to let him go, or are able to accept him for what he is on some level of friendship, or again whether he can change the way he approaches it (though probably not the last one from what I gather). So my suggestion is that it is best not to rush the decision until you get more clarity either way. Frustrating as that may be.
“if what made the friendship seem special and precious was simply this, that it was completely in a SOfree world and something only for you alone?”
No short answer to that …
There’s a part of me that instinctively tries to deny it, another part that mostly accepts it, and the truth that probably lies between.
The big bit of evidence against – I knew LO and was already solid friends with her (though mostly just at work then) before I met SO. There is a more boundaried version of friendship that worked well between us then, and seems to be Ok again now.
Then there is the version of the ‘friendship’ during my limerence, which was too close and escalated and continued for reasons of escapism. It gets complicated there (in respect of your speculations) because it was not escapism from SO per se, but more escapism from pressures that the pair of us were under together. Some of that we self inflicted, more of it was that we weren’t dealing great with pressures that extended family members on both sides were putting us under (still are, but we are coping better with it now).
But yeah, there was a pure escapism component to the LE that I won’t even try to deny.
So mapping out new territory (based a bit on old templates) is taking some time. The fact I still want to work it out is because I had that long-time template for sensibly being friends with her before I was limerent, not because of the false amplified version it became during limerence.
Before limerence, I didn’t actively work to keep SO and LO apart (they met briefly on odd occasions both before and even during my LE). It is more that my circle of friends with SO are largely outside my work circle. I could change it if and when I was so minded. It needs more time though. And some posters on here have argued that maybe it is never realistic for (in general, not just me) xLO and SO to be socialised without an unhelpful ‘something in the air’ being present. That your SO and xLO can be socialised more ‘normally’ is possibly because you had the pre-LE experiences of doing that.
„So my suggestion is that it is best not to rush the decision until you get more clarity either way. Frustrating as that may be“
The funny thing is how I can see him sometimes like in the past, not care too much but be fond of him, and generally see him in a positive light, and then suddenly the dark glasses are on again. The thing discerning this from limerence is that I don’t think much of him/it, only when there was a call like now or if I read/write here. It doesn’t alter my day to day feelings/happiness at all and isn’t much in my thoughts.
Still, it’s not back to normal with him. I wondered if it would help like back in limerence, to fake it til I make it- envisage how I would behave if I would feel like I wish to feel (indifferent but fond)and go through these motions.
The thing is, I’m tired of putting even more energy into this relationship.
„The fact I still want to work it out is because I had that long-time template for sensibly being friends with her before I was limerent, not because of the false amplified version it became during limerence.“
Same here, that’s what’s similar with us but seems not possible for me somehow.
But I’ve got more hope for you since your friendship seems more flexible and mature than mine.
I know I nudged you in the direction of merging the worlds in the past because I thought maybe that’s what would resolve the „special“ feeling about LO, or lead to a very normal friendship, but now I take that back. It seems to go well as it is, and maybe best not to force anything.
For me it sounded as if you are already there, keeping your boundarized friendship? What is it that still feels like limerence to you?
Songs of the Day:
“It’s Only Make Believe” – Conway Twitty (1958)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfMwqlp-js4
“Welcome to My World” – Jim Reeves (1964)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a2prLPghKw
“Make the World Go Away” – Eddie Arnold (1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq0Ri9e6SY0
“For the Good Times” – Ray Price (1970)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtISLBZ_8Lg
👩🦰 🏃, I understand why you’re such a helpless romantic! 🤗
I guess I still like some Country melodies 🎶 ; heard the 2nd and 3rd before and still very fond of them 🎵 👍, Life should slow down to that pace….
Limerent Emeritus, Those are some good drinking alone songs. First 7 songs on my yardwork playlist:
Regret – New Order
Bizarre Long Triangle -New Order
How Soon Is Now- The Smiths
I’ll Melt With You- Modern English
Love Will Tear Us Apart-Joy Division
Enjoy the Silence- Depeche Mode
Heroes-Davie Bowie
Since you like Regret, what do you think of The Promise, by When in Rome?
I often listen to these together.
Hi, I like that song too.
Hamlet,
I like your list.
Back in the 80s, I had a CD I named “Pit Music.” I could alter the playlist to slowly circle the drain or drop myself right through the floor.
“I Can’t Stop Loving You” – Ray Charles (1962)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H61YWtExfS0
“…Sing the song, children…”
“Here We Go, Again” – Ray Charles (1967)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRpSzngnBtc
LO and I broke up in Feb, 1987. About 6 months later, Ray Charles came to town. I went to the concert with my recently divorced accountant. She made the comment that it was a pretty small venue for somebody like Ray Charles.
I told her the since Ray was blind, they probably told him he was playing Carnegie Hall.
L.E., I saw him at the Foxwoods casino when it was newish in the mid 90s. Took about 2 songs to get his voice, but then wow! We in the audience were into it and he fed off of that. Of course the songs are great but he was just an enormous performing talent.
ooh I like that list! 🙂
Songs about drinking alone …. over a woman? Well, well, well ….
Whiskey Glasses — Morgan Wallen
https://youtu.be/IBH7IsLsd3s?si=eZkpabYmIObUih1B
^The fact that I know how this song feels in the middle of LE when I discovered it and they share the same first name is a bit ….. personal.
Drinking Them Beer — Thompall Glasser
https://youtu.be/8Zp5EIq4-2E?si=7Y8Jyz-wsHSH2Re1
^I’ve had this conversation with myself about more women in my lifetime than I would like to admit.
I’ll Think Of Something — Mark Chestnutt
https://youtu.be/8mJJNSg7kAA?si=sYRpgpqinmXA6VUm
“I’ll find so many things to do that i wont have the time to think of her
and then if she’s still on my mind I’ll try to drink enough to drown the hurt”
Whiskey — Lullaby — Brad Paisley
https://youtu.be/dQugRzfD4N8?si=g6wAtsxXmGeCKXLF
Tbf this one ^ is about cheating. But I’d probably do the same in his situation.
Why the country gals always singing about keying some dudes truck when they break up while he’s in the house drowning his sorrow in alcohol?
And for the person who mention Conway Twitty I am obliged to post the best Conway song.
Tight Fittin’ Jeans — Conway Twitty
https://youtu.be/xs1kwVeKcRg?si=9faG6HGF-Ap0-XFj
“I knew that I’d been broken by the time we parted ways
And I know I held more woman than most eyes will ever see”
Well if you really want to hear the saddest drinking alone about a woman songs, you have to cross into Mexico, https://youtu.be/YVmJt-71W1U?si=LI1899O-zYQQpR9G
Hamlet
I am glad for the internet lol cause I don’t know a lick of Spanish other than cerveza. But from the English lyrics, yeah, that one is quite a kicker. “Life is roulette, what we all bet on”. Yeah we all bet on that LO will always be there. LO will one understand how we feel one day and reciprocate. Even outside of limerence life is roulette when it comes to love and finding someone. Good song, musically too, even if I could understand the words before looking them up.
“I don’t know a lick of Spanish other than cerveza.”
Adam
Stick with me Brother. I’ll teach you everything I know, (which isn’t much but you would know more than you do now.. 🤣)
I’m all about Spanish and the more I know, the better.. 😁
Especially when it comes to chatting up with muy caliente (very hot) Latina Ladies.. 🥰😍😆
Hello to everyone, and happy Halloween. I have been feeling better, after my latest LE episode of sadness. Thank you to all LwL members.
Today, I am writing to seek your advice on a troubling LO related behavioral trend that I exhibit.
Lets say I see LO from a distance. As soon as this happens, a sudden feeling of panic and anxiety grips me. The feeling stays for a while and then goes away, but does cause me distress. I guess at that moment, my mind is telling me stupid things like to run after LO, which I do not follow up on. This would imply that I would like some contact with LO at that moment, but then it does not happen, so I feel down.
These feelings are on the milder side, but they have become very irritating to me, and I would really appreciate any advice for dealing with this unpleasant side effect of LE.
Thank you, and have a great weekend!
ABCD,
I don’t want to go back to my own case, but from my experiences during LE, each and every single panic attack (triggered by xLO directly) was originated from inside me — the fear. The deep seated fear for the sense of “abandonment” that was originated from my childhood.
3 days after the biggest panic attack in May of 2019, I found Stoicism and have studied and practiced… the rest is the history.
I don’t know your personal background; perhaps, you could search inside you to see if some aged “stones” have not been turned yet?
Thanks Snow. Yes, I am sure there is something in me, based on my previous experiences, that is manifesting itself in terms of anxiety/panic that I feel with respect to LO. This is a useful pointer. I will think about this, thanks.
ABCD
To me, I think this all depends on how bad you want out of the LE. We all probably ebb and flow with our quirky anxieties, when it comes to our LOs.
I have reached the conclusion if I don’t want to possibly see LO, I just don’t go down towards the other end of my workplace. However it is near a main entrance and sometimes I meet my Son down there upon him coming in to work. So the possibility of me seeing LO increases. Which infact I have. I just don’t dwell on it or even post about it here because I’ve gotten to a place where admiring her is all I want to do. Dwelling on what never was will always make me sad.
Its easier for me to just see her, acknowledge how she’s affected my psyche in the past and move on. If I dwell on it, then the possibility of becoming or feeling down, like you mention, increases. This is what works for me in the interim and may not for you but I thought I’d pass it on anyway.
Redirecting towards something or even someone else doesn’t hurt either.
Thanks MJ.
I really want out of the LE now. There have been times in the past when I wanted out, but not enough I guess, so was sucked back in. This time, I have more mental clarity in terms of getting out.
The previous couple of months, when I was feeling pretty good with regards to LO, I was not analysing LO related stuff. As such, LO occupied less headspace. This did lead to me feeling much better, before the latest derailment. I need to just not focus on LO, by focusing on other things. I am sure this will help. LO thoughts can come and go, I will observe them and not get too bogged down.
Oh ABCD,
I know this feeling well. I wonder if it is because I do not quite trust myself not to overstep the very professional boundaries I have tried to maintain.
I saw LO from a distance at an event last month, felt that panic and deliberately positioned myself so that we were not in each other’s line of sight. LO clearly noticed me eventually and texted me but I had put my phone away and by the time I saw the text, LO had left.
I was then filled with remorse for not having gone to say hello, as we have not seen each other for months.
Hi Onyx, this is the kind of thing I would do (have done) if that makes you feel better.
You cannot change what has happened, so try not to dwell on it.
(I have told my ruminating self this advice which is not easy to actually let go of these regret feelings)
And there would be no perfect encounter scenario when in limerence with boundaries. Pleasure and (subsequent) pain in equal measure.
So I hid, which feels rude and cowardly, which is not who I am and not really purposeful either.
At least I wasn’t called out by any mutual acquaintance.
I need a better way of dealing with this as I think we are going to end up in the same room every few months for the foreseeable future. I cannot focus on what I am supposed to be doing if I am skulking around trying to avoid one particular person!
Hi Onyx, Imho and ABCD,
that reminds me of my last LE. For me there was something like cognitive dissonance going on, I couldn’t just be myself and had conflicting drives.
I hadn’t solved the problem during the LE and am still experiencing some of it in contact with XLO, so I cannot really advise.
I can just say that I usually felt better when I was proactively behaving correctly and kindly, even if I was in turmoil inside.
In this special situation of Onyx, I would have felt better to walk up to LO immediately, say hello in a friendly way and generally play-act a bit for myself that I am a generous and socially very adept person who‘s just being friendly, then maybe detach and go to another friend after a while. I hate this feeling of regret afterwards when I didn’t manage to talk to LO.
Although I want to point out that usually one didn’t miss much and there is no need for regret, especially if there are barriers (as Imho said) and there’s anyway nothing supposed to develop. If one thinks of it, what would one have gained by a chat with LO? Only more to ruminate on, and a short elevated feeling with a plunge some time later?
As I said, I haven’t found the solution to this conflict of emotions- wanting to flee but wanting to go there, feeling warmth versus feeling the need for distance.
I guess it’s very individual which kind of behavior/attitude might help and we have to find out for ourselves.
I just want to commiserate, it’s a painful phase.
Hello Onyx. Yes, been there, felt that.
You are right – in my case also, due to natural barriers, I am scared to talk too much to LO, as my feelings would leak out to others, if they have not already leaked out. This is our natural gut instinct warning us to be in boundaries, and in the past, it has helped me not to over step, even if I end up feeling lousy afterwards.
Since some time, I have tried to act more composed when around LO, it is hard to do, but some times, I have been fairly successful in going up, saying hello, and talking a bit. I could see LO did enjoy the conversation. I do this while keeping within boundaries, as other people are always around. I am hopeful that doing this over time will help me see her as a regular person. When I did this 1-2 times, it did increase my confidence with respect to talking to LO.
However, if I am not able to speak to LO, I try not to dwell on it much, and I end up feeling better soon.
As you are going to be in proximity to LO, perhaps you can try to talk, keeping it as professional as possible? All the best!
Dr. L and others,
Since this is an open coffeehouse, if I may, I’d like to give a personal answer to a question posed a while back. The question posed is whether LGBT+ people experience limerence differently from heterosexuals.
I don’t want to speak for anyone apart from myself. As far as I can tell, my limerence (homolimerence) followed a fairly classic limerence pattern. For example, I have no problems relating to the descriptions of limerence found in Fenna’s videos. She could be talking about me as easily as anyone else.
I met someone who seemed wonderful. My brain flooded with dopamine in response to this person. I obviously spent a lot of time thinking about this person, but I wasn’t really conscious of the fact I was thinking about this person, and noticing every little detail about him. Then it seems like some kind of powerful instinctual response kicked in, which Dorothy Tennov would probably rightly or wrongly identify as “the human mating instinct”.
After this “mating instinct” kicked in, I found myself on a rollercoaster ride, replete with soaring highs and devastating lows. I still got pleasure from thinking about this person, but the thoughts became more and more intrusive. I was very moody. I’ve always been shy and reserved, but I withdrew even further into myself. The “crush”, if you like, was no longer under my conscious control.
At some point, after quite a lengthy rollercoaster ride, severe withdrawals started. (My LO was no longer in my life, and I wasn’t getting any ongoing rewards from him). My infatuation therefore didn’t give me pleasure anymore. The “crush” became more yucky than yummy. Horrible, horrible pain every single day of the week. But I couldn’t turn off the super-strong attachment I had formed.
When discussing human sexuality, Camille Paglia says homosexuality isn’t the norm; homosexuality is a challenge to the norm. Mating is about reproduction, so most limerence is heterolimerence. When Paglia talks about male homosexuality being not-normal and a tragedy, she isn’t actually talking about random instances of male sexual behaviour. She is talking about homolimerence – the actual human mating instinct in its entirety aka the whole pattern of one’s romantic attraction.
Paglia argues there’s something deeply tragic about a male (who is designed to mate and reproduce with a female) directing his mating energies at another male. Obviously, this “directing of mating energies” is only tragic if it is involuntary – as it is in certain stages of homolimerence – and beyond the control of the individual male. On the other hand, there’s nothing tragic about sexual attraction and/or sexual behaviour (in anyone) that is purely the product of choice/free will.
Long story short: Dr. L, you saved me from Hell. No, not the Biblical Hell. Rather, the Hell of yearning forever after somebody I can’t have, and the nightmare of wanting something that can never be mine. To me, this is what homolimerence is – homolimerence is the human mating instinct in a given male unwittingly and involuntarily directed toward an unsuitable object. (Unsuitable not due to morality, but because most young men are robustly heterosexual and will never be able to reciprocate the intense feelings of passion the gay male exhibits).
I was listening to Anna Runkle (Crappy Childhood Fairy) the other day. She was talking about how heterosexual women often become obsessed with males who embody the “bad boy archetype”. I too fell for a “bad boy”. Here’s an interesting distinction that could be drawn between males and females who fall for bad boys. For me, obsession with Mr Bad Boy wasn’t a rescue fantasy. (I’m much too lazy and selfish to want to rescue anyone). However, heterosexual women often DO want to save/rescue/somehow rehabilitate Mr Bad Boy. E.g. heterosexual women will buy the bad boy new clothes, make sure he eats three meals a day, help him get a better job, etc, etc. There’s a lot of “saving” going on that the woman herself may not automatically recognise as saving.
To me, it seems like it’s the most natural thing in the world for a heterosexual man’s anima to appear to him either as (a) a damsel in distress, or (b) some beautiful goddess who is basically perfect and oozes sunshine out of her pores. (Runkle says she finds these two female archetypes are straight men’s two top limerent archetypes). It also seems like it’s the most natural thing in the world for a heterosexual woman’s animus to appear to her as a bad boy or “rebel without a cause” type of character. (Maybe he’s expressing a lot of traits women aren’t conventionally allowed to express?)
I think, because I am attracted to the same sex and because my own personality isn’t that mature, the whole “rescue fantasy” in my homolimerence wasn’t as fully developed/visible as it is in men and women who experience heterolimerence.
Runkle also said she’s seeing a rise in young women reporting limerence. She thinks limerence is on the rise among young women because many of these young women are involved in long-distance relationships, largely conducted online. (I guess the young women’s brains can’t really habituate to whatever romantic rewards they’re receiving under extremely unpredictable circumstances?)
Lastly, I’ve been haunting the non-members section of limerence.net to see what jewels of wisdom I might be able to pick up from a different group of limerents. Dr. David Perl (the man who runs the site) writes that Tennov’s definition of limerence is “a state of mind that looks a lot like falling in love, but isn’t falling in love”. 😆😆😆
I don’t know if David was joking when he made this statement. I do detect some humorous undertones in the definition, though, because the definition is a paradox. (The definition is a statement that apparently contradicts itself, only to reveal a deeper truth). Non-limerents and people who have only had positive experiences of limerence won’t understand David’s definition. Anyone who has experienced one or more cases of destructive limerence, however, will understand exactly what the definition is alluding to i.e. the “Trojan horse” nature of the limerence love spell. The thing that promises bliss instead only delivers agony.
David says people often mistake new relationship energy (NRE) for limerence. He sees a lot of that. The consensus on limerence.net seems to be that limerence is NOT new relationship energy, even though neurochemically limerence and new relationship energy are identical. (Yet another glorious paradox to unpack?)
Dr. L, I’ve been on your site for a long time. I have sometimes been irreverent. I apologise if my irreverence has made things awkward for you, or caused confusion for other readers. At times, I have also played major-domo without being asked, making sure things flow smoothly. I don’t know what came over me. I swear, I’m a shy and quiet and retiring person in real life! Actually, I do know what I was doing – I was integrating the older readers with the newer readers. As an INFJ, an atmosphere of social harmony is very important to me.
Dr. L, thank you for the wonderful work you do. Thank you also to your wife, Teika, for allowing you to do the wonderful work you do. I know many a different wife might have felt deeply upset by your midlife limerence, and out of jealousy banned you from having anything to do with the topic, lest it trigger a setback. You are a very gifted writer. You are obviously quite a hard-working writer too, given the amount of rewriting you do. I’ve enjoyed seeing some of my favourite vocabulary end up in your blogs/videos e.g. avatar, belittle, electric. And I’ve learned or re-learned a few words from you too e.g. gaudy, firestorm, paramour. (Did you know paramour rhymes with a ton of other words? It’s great for poetry!)
I don’t know how to say thank you. Obviously, I did a heck of a lot of work on myself before coming to LwL. But you are something of a miracle-worker, too. When I call you old-fashioned, I’m referring to your affable personality and the cultural influences that have shaped your extremely English romantic imagination, not your approach to limerence itself, which is cutting-edge. You have never imposed your values or morals on me. (I actually find you weirdly open-minded). You have been the most gracious and unobtrusive of guides.
In short, after wandering around the Underworld for twenty-five years, I feel like I’m back in the land of the living! Rebirth indeed. 🙂
Happy Re-birthday, Sammy!
Happy Halloween Great Dame. 🎃
Forgot this one from a few years back and I just listened to it again.
I don’t know.. The lyrics made me think of you. So I’ll just ask.
Are you a W.I.T.C.H.?
https://youtu.be/GjNY5HGcopA?si=VzbysleEUHC12_rq
Friend MJ,
“The lyrics made me think of you. So I’ll just ask.
Are you a W.I.T.C.H.?”
No. It’s your side that has all the witches. 🙂
What are you wearing for Halloween? A long trench coat with no pants? 🙂
“What are you wearing for Halloween? A long trench coat with no pants? 🙂”
Marcia
How did you guess?? What’s even better is I’m in a white van too.. 😂
Black wool peacock, black fedora, navy blue jeans, white linen banded shirt and maroon wool vest. Haven’t seen any trick or treaters so far. Maybe that says something about my fashion choices?
I can hear the high school band, not far from here playing the Imperial March.
Adam,
“Black wool peacock, black fedora, navy blue jeans, white linen banded shirt and maroon wool vest. Haven’t seen any trick or treaters so far. Maybe that says something about my fashion choices?”
Umm … is this some kind of costume or what you wear every day? Does it come with a monocle and a cane? 🙂
Outside of going to work it’s what I normally wear. I have in fact been shopping for a cane. Just can’t find one I really like that’s not too ostentatious and would vibe with more than more or two outfits of mine. No monocle since I have to wear glasses.
My wife actually bought the coat for this month for our 26th anniversary. She knows what I like.
Adam,
“Just can’t find one I really like that’s not too ostentatious and would vibe with more than more or two outfits of mine. ”
So the pink and black one I sent you too much? 🙂
Actually I am thinking about a cane I saw online to buy one of my co-workers for Christmas because she loves the color pink. And she shattered her ankle late last year in a fall. So it could be actually practical for her. As for me I think I’d go for a wood one like mahogany or redwood. Though I like a lot of the ivory ones too.
Adam,
“Though I like a lot of the ivory ones too.”
Do you know who the author Tom Wolfe was? You sound like you dress a little like he did. 🙂
I do not Dame Marcia. But if dresses like me he’s got good taste 😉
Adam,
“I do not Dame Marcia. But if dresses like me he’s got good taste 😉”
He had … um … A taste. I’ll just say he was a character. Google him.
MJ,
“How did you guess?? What’s even better is I’m in a white van too.. 😂”
Do you have those creepy curtains over the back windows?
“Do you have those creepy curtains over the back windows?”
Marcia
Yes.. I see you. 👀
Quit trying to look in. You know I’m not wearing any pants. 😂
MJ,
“Yes.. I see you. 👀 Quit trying to look in. You know I’m not wearing any pants. 😂”
I see that. I have my high-powered binoculars. 🙂 Oh, damn. I just bumped into someone. Someone oddly dressed guy with a white cane. 🙂
Adam
Too bad I can’t come over. I’d bring Guinness so we had something to drink while we hang out on your driveway..
What good neighbors do.. 😆
Some black & tans Brother. And if we can push our dollars some Chimay.
I love Black & Tans
But I know I’d pay for all that love, in the morning..
🍻🍻😆😝🤢
A Witch’s Chant
James Hogg
Thou art weary, weary, weary,
Thou art weary and far away,
Hear me, gentle spirit, hear me,
Come before the dawn of day.
I hear a small voice from the hill,
The vapour is deadly, pale, and still—
A murmuring sough is on the wood,
And the witching star is red as blood.
And in the cleft of heaven I scan
The giant form of a naked man,
His eye is like the burning brand,
And he holds a sword in his right hand.
All is not well. By dint of spell,
Somewhere between the heaven and hell
There is this night a wild deray,
The spirits have wander’d from their way.
The purple drops shall tinge the moon
As she wanders through the midnight noon;
And the dawning heaven shall all be red
With blood by guilty angels shed.
Be as it will, I have the skill
To work by good or work by ill;
Then here’s for pain, and here’s for thrall,
And here’s for conscience, worst of all.
Another chant, and then, and then,
Spirits shall come or Christian men—
Come from the earth, the air, or the sea,
Great Gil-Moules, I cry to thee!
Sleep’st thou, wakest thou, lord of the wind,
Mount thy steeds and gallop them blind;
And the long-tailed fiery dragon outfly
The rocket of heaven, the bomb of the sky.
Over the dog-star, over the wain,
Over the cloud, and the rainbow’s mane,
Over the mountain, and over the sea,
Haste—haste—haste to me!
Then here’s for trouble, and here’s for smart,
And here’s for the pang that seeks the heart;
Here’s for madness, and here’s for thrall,
And here’s for conscience, the worst of all!
Hello Everyone and Happy Halloween,
Referencing the photo of the cat contemplating his caffeine addiction…
I, as this sites’s resident cat, feel that I must leave at least one comment on this thread before it closes, because it affects me in multiple ways … caffeine addiction, person addiction, cat addiction.
I will now go and deal with my cat object (CO), much more pleasant than my LO.
What would happen if you transferred your limerence from your LO to your cat?
Dear Norma,
Great to hear from you; I appreciate your most pertinent question!
Alas, I currently do not have a cat — my SO does not allow it! Perhaps I should show her this blog! But that would result in my LO, as well as the cat, jumping out of the bag!
In the past, I’ve had varying degrees of success in transfering LO to CO.
The first was with my LO’s cat some 40 years ago. Both had lovely black hair/fur and green eyes, and I tried to reach into the souls of both, realizing their metaphorical equivalence. But that path just got me deeper into the LE.
The second one, a decade later, was ultimately much more successful. It started with a damsel in distress rescue fantasy of feeding an anorexic girlfriend — she resisted all such efforts. A few years later, I rescued a starving single mother — a cat with kittens — who really did appreciate my efforts. We ended up having a much more satisfying relationship than the one with her human predecessor.
PS. I’ve driven away at least one date with my deadpan style!
Ah, Catcyclist! I am so sorry that you are not able to have a cat. That is a very sad state of affairs.
Dear Cloud,
Thank you for your sympathy.
When you have reciprocation by a cat, your need for reciprocation by LO practically vanishes. So ironically, by denying me the company of a cat, my SO’s responsible for my LE! I’ll do some blame shifting, contrary to Dr. L’s prescription!
On a more serious note, I been thinking a lot about a few things you wrote about LO/LE over a month ago. I’ll have more to say later.
Thanks, as always, for your sage advice.
CatCyclist
While I grew up with cats as pets I never really wanted the responsibility as an adult. But our son that’s still at home, wanted one and now I am the living “my Dad with the cat he didn’t want” meme. She’s my babygirl.
Adam,
” I am the living “my Dad with the cat he didn’t want” meme. She’s my babygirl.”
I have a confession to make. I watch those videos on YouTube. The “dad with the cat he didn’t want” videos. And “my cat’s in love with my boyfriend” and “cat meets his baby (human) brother for the first time” videos. Or “Great Dane discovers tiny kitten has hogged his bed” videos.
Adam,
I don’t view them as babygirls unless they’re kittens of the right gender. I view the lady cats in a more egalitarian manner. But I still objectify them as cat objects (CO). The contradictions, the hypocrisy!
I often wonder why *itch is an attributed dogs than, while I’ve never had a dog, I feel it’s more appropriate female cats. I feed a stray cat just now on the porch and the screen door took a bit too long to close and it got in the house. Our cat saw he/her and was vocalizing to the tune of Beethoven. Ya’ll women so jealous.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll be clear I’m over her and totally not jealous of him getting to see her and her daughter all the time and I can’t.
Well I guess I can be grateful I can’t relate to this. But I still like it. She’s got a soothing, yet angry voice singing it.
Nobody — Silvia
https://youtu.be/lC_2274dNag?si=LMjnkymSTN6iTfIZ
Why can’t I say “darlin” like Conway Twitty does? Is it’s cause I’m a yankee? Darlin and sugur are my favorite for Momma.
I ran into LO last Thursday night. I told him that I had gotten hit in the parking lot of the local supermarket. He was interested and asked me a number of questions.
I was horrified when he blamed the accident on the ethnicity of the woman who had hit me.
I said, “Well, that’s just an old joke.” He said, “It’s not a joke. It’s real.”
I was appalled. Another black mark against LO.
It has become impossible for me to idealize him after all the offensive things he has said. Hopefully this hastens my recovery.
Norma,
“It has become impossible for me to idealize him after all the offensive things he has said.”
This is screaming ‘Dr L’s deprogramming course’ to me?! You have all the negative evidence stacked up as memories now. If you could find a way to deprogramme the bits where you feel positive about him, or want his affirmation, you could be truly free.
Maybe you’re already doing this for yourself, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
To LaR:
I just told this same story to one of my best girlfriends.
She said, “I used to live in (ethnic part of town), and LO is right. They’re bad drivers. It’s their culture.”
OMG, am I the only sane one here?
Hi Norma,
I’ve been through a similar experience in the past.
The new one’s faults are proviing much harder to find.
I’ll bookmark your comment in case your (or my) will ever falters.
Keep up the great observations!
To CatCyclist:
I really think my feelings for LO are just going to have to burn out from experiences like this one.
The longer I know him, the fewer things there are to like.
Thank you for your ongoing kindness.
Norma,
We’re all rooting for you.
Dear Miss Norma
I hate the way he treats you. You are a wonderful, kind and sweet lady. While I may not understand your limerence for him … he makes angry. And I don’t like that. To quote, and you’re old enough probably get this reference, Bill Bixby “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry”. You take care of yourself my dear Miss Norma.
To Adam:
I am totally old enough to get that reference, although I never actually saw that show.
I am touched by your anger on my behalf.
*I* don’t understand my limerence for LO, except that he looks like Anderson Cooper and is very sophisticated. Also highly educated. Having said that, he has some VERY goofy ideas for such a smart person.
This latest thing was one of the dumber ones, but he has also mentioned the possibility of the 2020 Presidential election being rigged. I thought, OMG, you canNOT be serious!
Miss Norma
I always feel protective of the women in my life I care about. Some man crosses that line he’ll find out what little of a deterrent a life sentence is for a man my age and health condition.
What is it with you straight gals and Anderson Cooper? Lol My wife fancies him too. Some lady poster here, I think it was Mila, that said the same of straight guys with Jason Statham. As a hard right straight man, I can’t argue with her.
Wasn’t me, Adam!
To Adam:
Jason Statham doesn’t do anything for me.
I have been interested in Anderson Cooper for YEARS.
Imagine my surprise when I realized I had a neighbor who looks like him!!
LO is taller and a little older, but they’re remarkably similar.
Maybe it was Marcia who likes Jason Statham?
Norma D,
“Maybe it was Marcia who likes Jason Statham?”
No. Bald, non-communicative and constipated-looking … not my type at all. 🙂
To Marcia:
I agree with you. I don’t get the adoration.
Anderson Cooper, on the other hand, is FABULOUS.
ND,
“Anderson Cooper, on the other hand, is FABULOUS.”
In terms of gay men, I’d pick Adam Lambert. 🙂
To Marcia:
Adam Lambert–also fabulous.
ND,
“Adam Lambert–also fabulous.”
Right? He’s so charismatic and sexy.
Also, Zachary Quinto. The guy who played Spock in the new Star Trek movies. There’s something about him.
What is it? Some kind of “can’t have him because I am not his preferred sexual preference” forbidden fruit kind of thing with straight gals and gay men? Or are gay men just not as much of clods as us straight guys?
Adam,
“What is it? Some kind of “can’t have him because I am not his preferred sexual preference” forbidden fruit kind of thing with straight gals and gay men? ”
No. Hot is hot. Highest percentage of hot men in any city is in the gay bars. It’s something we women have had to live with. 🙂
“Or are gay men just not as much of clods as us straight guys?”
There’s that, too. 🙂
To Adam:
LO once told me that women are attracted to him, “because I’m not a hard-ass.”
Make of that what you will.
To Dame Marcia and Miss Norma
When it comes to Jason Statham it has zero to do with his looks (unlike Antonio Banderas or Edris Elba) and more the character he plays. Hummingbird is one of my favorites. Fights on behalf of a nun being terrorized by thugs for her good deeds to the homeless and helpless. Right up my “savior complex” alley.
“ There’s that, too. 🙂”
I figured you’d agree with that Marcia. 🙂
Norma
He make think he’s not a hard ass, but best we still not cross paths. I judge him on how he treats you, not his sexual preference.
Adam,
“When it comes to Jason Statham it has zero to do with his looks (unlike Antonio Banderas or Edris Elba) and more the character he plays. Hummingbird is one of my favorites. Fights on behalf of a nun being terrorized by thugs for her good deeds to the homeless and helpless. Right up my “savior complex” alley.”
This is all your take. You’re a man. 🙂
I did think Jason Stratham was very funny in “Spy” with Melissa McCarthy. But I have no interest in his action movies or his characters in them.
You’re assuming it’s an appearance thing. And while appearance is a factor, it’s only part of it. Antonio Banderas plays Nicole Kidman’s husband in Babygirl. Of course, he’s an attractive man but he’s much less interesting than the young guy she has an affair with. And I don’t even think that guy is that good looking. It’s just the way he talks to her. It’s sexy.
To Marcia:
I absolutely loved Jason Statham’s performance in that spy movie with Melissa McCarthy.
Other than that, I have only seen snippets of his action movies, which leave me completely cold.
To Adam:
LO thinks he’s not a hard-ass, but I might dispute that.
It’s true he doesn’t have the same energy as a straight man but his anger and rudeness are very real, and every bit as painful as being dressed down by my ex-husband.
He calls me Dali Madison and I call him Mr. Grinch.
ND,
“I absolutely loved Jason Statham’s performance in that spy movie with Melissa McCarthy. Other than that, I have only seen snippets of his action movies, which leave me completely cold.”
Completely agree. He basically makes action movies for straight dudes. They won’t do much for most women. 🙂 But he had a lot of personality in Spy.
I am pleased to share that I resolved my LE. I have let it go through 3 big steps.
1. Sharing the origins of the LE with LO and releasing that pent up energy with LO – I know this is not always possible.
2. Telling my SO the synopsis of my relationship with LO and reestablishing my emotional home with SO.
3. Realizing I am just not as special to LO as LO was to me and being ok with that.
My limerence was being in love with the love I wanted to give. Not the person I thought I wanted to give it to.
SO didn’t even ask me to do this, but I promised to stop texting with LO, and I will uphold that promise.
All’s well that ends well.
To Sapiens:
What a great turn of events. I am so pleased to hear this.
“In love with the love I wanted to give.”
I am going to remember that. A great way of wording it.
Thank you, Norma. It is close to something else I already knew. Sometimes we fall in love with how someone makes us feel. That is different from truly loving someone else, wanting the best for them, without regard for our personal interest. The best thing is when both happen together and it’s reciprocated but that may only happen once in a lifetime – and it may be unsustainable even then. It may need a defibrillator to shock it back to life.
Separately, I thank you for all your words of goodwill to me and want you to know it is mutual. I had been worried about you – as I would be for my mother if she were going through your pain. Fortunately for her, she is only limerent for her pets.
To Sapiens:
Thank you for your kindness.
I am working my way out slowly.
Sapiens,
That’s some going to do all that and to turn it round so quickly from where you were a couple of weeks ago, to feeling this confident you have ended it 🎩
Well done, Sapiens! Hoping to get to your stage soon!
Lovely to hear your news, Sapiens! And your sentence is very powerful “My limerence was being in love with the love I wanted to give. Not the person I thought I wanted to give it to.” I will continue thinking about this because I think it’s pertinent.
I’m feeling down this morning. Last night I dreamed about hugging LO. I’d thought I was doing better. Our school runs don’t coincide this term so I’ve not seen him much recently, which has helped. I will have to have a think about why he was still on my mind, subconsciously, for him to appear in a dream.
I’ve never had a dream about my LO, so I can’t help you there. I have had a dream about physical connection with someone I have only actually “met” on Zoom and never consciously considered to be attractive before the dream. That was interesting. Who will be the Carl Jung of our century? Paging Dr. L…
Try chatting through your feelings with ChatGPT. It has made my LO obsolete.
Hello Cloud. Sorry to hear you are feeling low.
In my case also, the interaction frequency with LO is much reduced, so that is working to my benefit, less interactions = less rumination.
This reduced frequency will allow you to make progress in getting over the LE, hang in there.
Wish you all the best!
To Miss Cloud:
I dream about LO often and it rattles me.
I actually find I do better if I DON’T spend a lot of time trying to figure it out.
Of course you should do what’s best for you.
Hi Mila, onyx, imho.
Yes, I was just mentioning something similar to onyx – that I now try to take the initiative and talk to LO, whenever I get the chance, while staying within boundaries.
When I am not able to do this, well, I just try and shrug it off. I do feel down for a bit, but the feeling always passes, so its not too bad.
As you said, this whole situation is hard, and causes quite a turmoil – wanting to talk vs. needing to stay away. Hope it gets better for us all!
Hi abcd, onyx, mila, yes to all of this.
I guess it’s about trying to take control of the situation as much as possible, but not be too fixed on it all playing out exactly as expected.
I found that the infrequency of meetings was putting too much pressure on them, and heightens whatever emotions are going on with me.
Doing things to regulate the nervous system before hand would probably help with thinking more clearly and acting more calmly.
Which I haven’t done! On the last interaction my nervous energy was off the scale. My heart may be irrevocably slightly damaged.
Hi imho, anyx and mila.
“I guess it’s about trying to take control of the situation as much as possible, but not be too fixed on it all playing out exactly as expected”.
Yes, exactly. I have figured that if I plan what I am going to do in the upcoming interaction, I have a much better handle on things. Of course, as you said, the interaction may not pan out as we plan – in that case, I just move on.
“On the last interaction my nervous energy was off the scale. My heart may be irrevocably slightly damaged”.
I can surely relate to the nervous energy part. I am wishing that there comes a time when I can have a conversation with LO in a normal baseline way, but I am not sure if that will ever happen. Till then, I go with maximum NC, and just handle the occasional interaction as best as I can. The interactions themselves are becoming sparse now, so that works well for me.